Have you ever been the target of a bully?

[DWx]

As for helping someone who is targeted by bullies, I usually do because I know what its like to be there (as a kid anyway) and its just one of those things that really peeves me. Actually I sorted out one of kids at TKD the other week who was bullying the other kids. He was boasting to all the other kids he was the best sparrer there and kept smacking some of the others on the head and in the arm saying their reflexes weren't good enough. Didn't realise I was there so I told him I'd spar him in class and the we'd see how good his reflexes were. In short, I didn't hit him hard as he must be only 13 or 14 but I didn't let up, he ended up crying. Which I felt really bad for but I think he learnt a lesson in humility and was an excellent student for the rest of class.

Imho, this is an inappropriate way for any black belt and/or any instructor to act/react to that type of situation, especially during class. What did that really teach the entire class? One who isn't the instructor has no business taking corrective actions on their own. Matter of fact, the instructor has no business taking corrective actions, and that's what that was imho, in class because instructors have, or should have, other professional methods of disciplining their students. To cause a student, especially a minor student, to cry isn't how we're suppose to help our fellow martial artists. To bully a bully in class would've led me to tell that black belt to go home for that day because this isn't how these type of situations should be dealt with in class; not by any black belt or any rank, and not by the instructor.

How would I have handled that situation? It's simple. I would've quitely instructed that bullying student as well as the parent into my office immediately, and then I would've suspended that student for a week minimum for bullying and I would've explained to that student and parent why bullying isn't allowed in my dojo. In that, I would've also explained why bullying isn't an appropriate action for anybody to display, especially for a martial artist.

Bullying and the martial arts are a oxymoron, and therefore, they should be treat as such.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. But I don't believe I was bullying the kid at all. Maybe you had to be there to understand what was going on as as with a lot of internet communication, maybe I'm not conveying what happened properly. He was unpleasant to the other kids so I joked that I would spar him properly (even he laughed when I said it).

[Jay]

As for helping someone who is targeted by bullies, I usually do because I know what its like to be there (as a kid anyway) and its just one of those things that really peeves me. Actually I sorted out one of kids at TKD the other week who was bullying the other kids. He was boasting to all the other kids he was the best sparrer there and kept smacking some of the others on the head and in the arm saying their reflexes weren't good enough. Didn't realise I was there so I told him I'd spar him in class and the we'd see how good his reflexes were. In short, I didn't hit him hard as he must be only 13 or 14 but I didn't let up, he ended up crying. Which I felt really bad for but I think he learnt a lesson in humility and was an excellent student for the rest of class.

Imho, this is an inappropriate way for any black belt and/or any instructor to act/react to that type of situation, especially during class. What did that really teach the entire class? One who isn't the instructor has no business taking corrective actions on their own. Matter of fact, the instructor has no business taking corrective actions, and that's what that was imho, in class because instructors have, or should have, other professional methods of disciplining their students. To cause a student, especially a minor student, to cry isn't how we're suppose to help our fellow martial artists. To bully a bully in class would've led me to tell that black belt to go home for that day because this isn't how these type of situations should be dealt with in class; not by any black belt or any rank, and not by the instructor.

How would I have handled that situation? It's simple. I would've quitely instructed that bullying student as well as the parent into my office immediately, and then I would've suspended that student for a week minimum for bullying and I would've explained to that student and parent why bullying isn't allowed in my dojo. In that, I would've also explained why bullying isn't an appropriate action for anybody to display, especially for a martial artist.

Bullying and the martial arts are a oxymoron, and therefore, they should be treat as such.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. But I don't believe I was bullying the kid at all. Maybe you had to be there to understand what was going on as as with a lot of internet communication, maybe I'm not conveying what happened properly. He was unpleasant to the other kids so I joked that I would spar him properly (even he laughed when I said it).

I actually think he probably would learn more from that then just talking to him. You showed him up. People can react two ways they either train harder or just give up. Its good discipline to make him train harder and is good to implement psychologically. Whenever he spars higher grades and adults you are always 'bullied'. I know I have done it, when you are a teen and in the adult class its hard. But eventually you learn to take it as it comes the higher grades always smack you around a bit. You learn to stick up for yourself.

[sensei8]

As for helping someone who is targeted by bullies, I usually do because I know what its like to be there (as a kid anyway) and its just one of those things that really peeves me. Actually I sorted out one of kids at TKD the other week who was bullying the other kids. He was boasting to all the other kids he was the best sparrer there and kept smacking some of the others on the head and in the arm saying their reflexes weren't good enough. Didn't realise I was there so I told him I'd spar him in class and the we'd see how good his reflexes were. In short, I didn't hit him hard as he must be only 13 or 14 but I didn't let up, he ended up crying. Which I felt really bad for but I think he learnt a lesson in humility and was an excellent student for the rest of class.

Imho, this is an inappropriate way for any black belt and/or any instructor to act/react to that type of situation, especially during class. What did that really teach the entire class? One who isn't the instructor has no business taking corrective actions on their own. Matter of fact, the instructor has no business taking corrective actions, and that's what that was imho, in class because instructors have, or should have, other professional methods of disciplining their students. To cause a student, especially a minor student, to cry isn't how we're suppose to help our fellow martial artists. To bully a bully in class would've led me to tell that black belt to go home for that day because this isn't how these type of situations should be dealt with in class; not by any black belt or any rank, and not by the instructor.

How would I have handled that situation? It's simple. I would've quitely instructed that bullying student as well as the parent into my office immediately, and then I would've suspended that student for a week minimum for bullying and I would've explained to that student and parent why bullying isn't allowed in my dojo. In that, I would've also explained why bullying isn't an appropriate action for anybody to display, especially for a martial artist.

Bullying and the martial arts are a oxymoron, and therefore, they should be treat as such.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. But I don't believe I was bullying the kid at all. Maybe you had to be there to understand what was going on as as with a lot of internet communication, maybe I'm not conveying what happened properly. He was unpleasant to the other kids so I joked that I would spar him properly (even he laughed when I said it).

I actually think he probably would learn more from that then just talking to him. You showed him up. People can react two ways they either train harder or just give up. Its good discipline to make him train harder and is good to implement psychologically. Whenever he spars higher grades and adults you are always 'bullied'. I know I have done it, when you are a teen and in the adult class its hard. But eventually you learn to take it as it comes the higher grades always smack you around a bit. You learn to stick up for yourself.

Imho, this too isn't the proper way to act for any martial artist, especially black belts. Maybe he only learnt that black belts can be bullies too. Again, bullying and the martial arts are a oxymoron, and therefore, they should be treat as such; they just don't mix.

An old idiom says...'You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar' This means that it is easier to persuade people if you use polite arguments than if you are confrontational.

[DWx]

Its not confrontational at all and I really don't think its bullying. Its not like I challenged him to come out and prove his skills in front of the class. If a particularly obnoxious 14 year old thinks he can spar like an adult, I'll spar him like one (albeit with a reduced contact level). Not hurting him but not making it easy. My own teachers have done this to me. You get to around mid-colour belt higher colour belt level and you think you can beat everyone and walk around the school with a head that barely fits through the door. It just takes one person to put you back in your place and show you that actually, you're not the best. At that point you have a choice to either train hard to become the best or just give up and accept that you'll only ever be mediocre.

[bushido_man96]

I think its a case of sometimes "actions speak louder than words." I know that there is an old gym axiom, as well: "show me, don't tell me."

Sometimes, both of these do have room in the dojo.

[BDPulver]

Growing up I was bullied by this one kid almost non stop. It got me to the point where I started taking different ways to get to places.

This guy (we'll call Hank) would chase me non stop. Hank would pretty much sometimes just stalk me to harass me. Always wanted me to fight him.

I think my mom followed me once cause I would go to KMart as a kid to buy gijoe figures and she got worried cause I took too long coming home. She tried talking to me but I was the typical little kid by saying it was nothing.

I tried tae kwon do but didnt like the instructor, just kept reading black belt mag's then. My mom saw my interest in MA grow and enrolled me in with the teacher I am still with to this day.

Before I left for the Army back in 89 he tried to pick a fight with me again but I just looked him straight in the eye and said no I'm better. turned my back and heard call me coward, chicken and some words not appropriate for the forums.

After my time in I came home, totally forgetting bout Hank cause of the stuff I've seen or done or was involved with. And thats when I found out some never grow out of it.

Hank saw me riding my bike around town (I was getting into Mtn biking ) and pulled his truck right in front of my path. At first I didnt recognize him, being same age it was not doing him well. Figured he was on drugs heavy. He started off on me again. now mind you I was 23 at the time and here he is still trying to be a bully.

I just looked at him while he started mouthing off again. Saying he was gonna kick my butt and all that. I looked at him again but this time stood there and looked him down. I warned him if he tried it would not be a confrontation he would walk away from. Told him I was tired of his you know what and he started to act a bit timid.

In fact one of his buddies told him I wasnt worth it. He never took his eyes off me as he got back in the truck cuss'd me a bit and drove away.

I was never scared more in my life then that day but felt relieved at the same time. One I wasnt sure what wouldve happen'd and two I figured being older like that people would grow out of it.

Last I heard though "Hank" was serving 10 to 12 for drugs. That was when I was back home in 02. Pretty much, its hard to understand a bully but its harder trying to figure out why you became the target to begin with.

[sensei8]

bushido_man96 Posted:

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I think its a case of sometimes "actions speak louder than words." I know that there is an old gym axiom, as well: "show me, don't tell me."

Sometimes, both of these do have room in the dojo.

DWx Posted:

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Its not confrontational at all and I really don't think its bullying. Its not like I challenged him to come out and prove his skills in front of the class. If a particularly obnoxious 14 year old thinks he can spar like an adult, I'll spar him like one (albeit with a reduced contact level). Not hurting him but not making it easy. My own teachers have done this to me. You get to around mid-colour belt higher colour belt level and you think you can beat everyone and walk around the school with a head that barely fits through the door. It just takes one person to put you back in your place and show you that actually, you're not the best. At that point you have a choice to either train hard to become the best or just give up and accept that you'll only ever be mediocre.

Possibly it's just that we differ in what a bully is when one speaks about black belts in reference to the many ways there are to motivate a student. And in that, I'll continue to use the diplomatic approach.

[Blade96]

Got bullied. How I dealt with it? I quit school in grade 10. It was the worst kind of torture and assaults and the school wouldnt do squat to protect me.

[Cable Dog]

My personal experience with bullies is that apathy removes the pleasure of bullying. The less you show that you care, if possible, no emotion at all, then the bully often doesn't get what they wanted. It takes a while but it often works. A combination of proper authority contact (police, principal, etc.) with the "killing with kindness" tactic works wonders as it is almost impossible to give a GOOD reason for the attack. Just my best tactics.

Out of personal experiences, I carried a deck of cards. No I'm not Gambit. But they cost a quarter at the local thrift shop and they have many uses, If you aren't good at throwing individuals, simply throwing them into the air at the bully gives a great distraction for a quick escape. Likewise as a projectile if you pinch the top and bottom card of the deck and throw, it becomes a solid projectile. These tactics are google-able. My personal tactics are strange, I realize. I much prefer to not get into a fist-fight if I can.

[evergrey]

Where I grew up, I was the wrong color. I didn't really understand that at first. I just was who and what I was. But my skin was wrong. My hair was wrong. My eyes were wrong. That's what the other kids believed.

I was beaten, spat on, called names... my arm was broken, I had bricks thrown at my head (got hit a couple of times) and once I was shot at. Worse things happened too.

By the time I was in my mid-teens, I had learned to project the illusion of being a predator. I learned to carry myself in such a way that I "felt" like a dangerous person to many people around me. I wish I could remember just how I did this. I just constantly worked to project "I will hunt you down and tear you to pieces." It was a pretty good bluff- the local skinhead gang in the town I moved to around that age would back down and melt away if I showed up. They were all bigger than me and most of them outweighed me by a good 80 pounds... I was lithe and skinny then.

I didn't threaten, I didn't bluster, really. I just moved with intent and did my best to seem dangerous in that cold, quiet, calculating way that a wolf or a tiger is. I think I only ever got in one fight, and it doesn't really even count as one.

But the town that I moved from, El Centro, was a very very hard town, and the town I moved to, Santa Barbara, was a very soft one. The bullies in SB really didn't have much of anything on a lot of the people living in El Centro back when I was there.

If I had ever really gotten in a serious fight, I don't think I would have fared terribly well. I had the heart and I had the drive to survive, so that would have worked in my favor, but I had no muscle and no skills. I didn't really have a clue as to HOW to defend myself or take someone down.

Thankfully people tended to fall for the bluff. It was convincing enough that they didn't want to try their luck. I saved a couple of kids from getting curb stomped.

Unfortunately there was also backlash once I did move out of town. Maybe those boys felt humiliated by their inability to face a tiny little girl. Maybe they'd just gotten bolder. But the next girl who came along dressed the way I usually had dressed DID get curb stomped, and her jaw was shattered. She had to have it wired shut for 6 months.

So I didn't really fight anyone. In that way, I avoided confrontation, which is the best way to not get hurt in a fight. Just don't fight, if you can help it. I didn't really smear it in their faces either. I gave my enemies a chance to save face. But still, they were resentful.

I guess I can't take responsibility for the evil things other people do though. A bully is going to be a bully. And they aren't going to change just because you want them to. And you cannot protect everyone all the time. Gods know I tried.

I guess what I came away from all that with was a sense that innocence is precious and should be protected. I lost my innocence very young.

Maybe if I had been able to stick with martial arts when I was a young kid, I would have been a little better equipped to deal with things. Mentally for sure, maybe physically too.

The unfortunate thing about being a child is that bullying is expected and seen as normal. Often, adults don't want to think about the fact that there might be horrible things happening to children whose safety they are responsible for. So they will pretend it isn't real, or isn't a big deal. They will be dismissive and say "boys will be boys" or "it's just kids and the way things are." Behavior that would lead to lawsuits and maybe jail time if adults exhibited it is often ignored with nothing more than a warning.

Torture, physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, all of these things happen in schools. Sometimes in church youth groups, or scout troops, or other places that people don't want to believe are capable of allowing such things.

My advice to adults is to listen carefully to children and take them seriously. Yeah, losing a pokemon card is not the end of the world, and a kid can feel like it is. But sometimes it isn't something like that at all. Sometimes it's something much darker. Something that could scar them for life. So don't dismiss. Investigate. Listen. Understand that their feelings are valid. Do whatever is in your power to protect them.

Advice for kids? That, I need to figure out. Other than please tell someone, and if they dismiss you, try someone else, and someone else, until you find an adult who is willing to listen. It is easy to fall into the trap of believing that no adults can trusted and no one can keep you safe. I know I did. But it doesn't have to be that way.

If you can escape, do it. If you are attending a school (public or private, I don't mean martial arts school) and they do not protect their students, then if there is an alternative school that does better, see if there's any way to get yourself transferred. I transferred schools when I was seven years old after some very very bad things happened. It is scary and it is hard but worth a try.

And learn to carry yourself as though you are fearless. As though you are the hunter, not the hunted. Carry in your mind the thought that you are a predator. Do not prey on others, but let yourself project the ability to. Be calm and quiet and move with deadly grace. Many bullies are cowards and looking for people who feel like victims. Let yourself feel like a predator instead. The bullies will be more likely to leave you alone. People who need protection will be more likely to come to you, and maybe you can help them out.