Have you ever been the target of a bully?

[Toptomcat]

If my child starts the fight. Then they've some explaining to do to me as to why.

Are there explanations that you'd accept?

[sensei8]

If my child starts the fight. Then they've some explaining to do to me as to why.

Are there explanations that you'd accept?

At this moment? At their ages? No! They've other ways to address their situations other than starting the fight.

Edited May 26, 2010 by sensei8

[Sibylla]

As for helping someone who is targeted by bullies, I usually do because I know what its like to be there (as a kid anyway) and its just one of those things that really peeves me. Actually I sorted out one of kids at TKD the other week who was bullying the other kids. He was boasting to all the other kids he was the best sparrer there and kept smacking some of the others on the head and in the arm saying their reflexes weren't good enough. Didn't realise I was there so I told him I'd spar him in class and the we'd see how good his reflexes were. In short, I didn't hit him hard as he must be only 13 or 14 but I didn't let up, he ended up crying. Which I felt really bad for but I think he learnt a lesson in humility and was an excellent student for the rest of class.

I don't believe in such solutions. In a dojo setting students copy instructor behavior and if you do that, the students will "punish" lower ranked students as a result, and you have a horde of bullies on your hands.

[Martialart]

I'm glad to hear the stories of those who have overcome bullying, and from those stories and others, and from my own experiences, I know the only way to stop a bully is to stand up for yourself, no matter what that means. Bullies always look for someone weaker.

My experience has been that bullies want to dominate and humiliate; they don't want to stand toe-to-toe and fight every time they try to pick on someone. That's not the fun of bullying.

In fact, fights are not the same thing as bullying or being bullied. If you challenge someone to a fight who's making fun of you and a fight ensues--that's not bullying. Bullying is always one person trying to dominate and humiliate another.

They've tried to stop it, but there's no way to stop it. It's too complex of a dynamic. There is something within some of us (myself included) that just wants to beat the heck out of a sissy. There's something wild in our nature that when we see something weak, we have to chase it and take it down--like a lion after a baby zebra--especially if that zebra is standing out. But that only explains the physical violence--it doesn't explain the bullies need to dominate and humiliate.

Most likely, the serial bully has a personality disorder (usually a narcisstic personality disorder). That's why they have to be stood up to. But a person can be a target of bullies by creating the bullies that surround them out of people who normally wouldn't bully people.

Few targets can be helped. It's hard to get a kid to admit they're being bullied, so discovering those who need help is hard enough. It's hard to define bullying, because a kid whose getting in a lot of fights is not necessarily being bullied. And then, too, the chronic target may be the kid who actually identifies and seems satisfied being a victim of bullies in that they will do nothing to change the situation. These types often become the followers of bullies. And then some kids are so off that there's nothing that can be done--such as the kid who insists on being openly gay in high school, or the kid who may actually be a very bad person themselves and though it seems like bullying, it's really just Divine justice playing out. I knew a kid who was bullied in school who later turned out to be a child rapist--even while he knew he had AIDS. In that case, had this individual been killed by bullies, we would see it as a tragedy, but it really wouldn't have been.

To actually come across a "Daniel-son" (The kid in Karate Kid who was an otherwise good guy, normal guy, but being treated unfairly and getting beat up all the time by bullies who just didn't like his face) is very rare. And, if you watch that movie, Daniel wasn't really bullied. He pretty much instigated every instance in which he was beat up, he was never humiliated or dominated, he was just on the losing end of fights. He stood up for himself, he just needed to learn how to win.

That's the problem with bullying. It's like a mirage. You go to get a hold of it, and its not there, but then it is there, and then it's gone again. Or you find yourself on one hand hating bullies and on the other being a bully. I'm sorry, but in Karate Kid III, daniel is getting dumpy in the butt, he's being dominated by a girl who uses him, he whines and stresses out constantly, and you get to the point where you want to see him get beat up by the bullies.

It's hard to know what to do.

[Sibylla]

Daniel is a true passive-aggressive. And they can be bullies themselves, if not physically, by their other behavior.

[DWx]

As for helping someone who is targeted by bullies, I usually do because I know what its like to be there (as a kid anyway) and its just one of those things that really peeves me. Actually I sorted out one of kids at TKD the other week who was bullying the other kids. He was boasting to all the other kids he was the best sparrer there and kept smacking some of the others on the head and in the arm saying their reflexes weren't good enough. Didn't realise I was there so I told him I'd spar him in class and the we'd see how good his reflexes were. In short, I didn't hit him hard as he must be only 13 or 14 but I didn't let up, he ended up crying. Which I felt really bad for but I think he learnt a lesson in humility and was an excellent student for the rest of class.

I don't believe in such solutions. In a dojo setting students copy instructor behavior and if you do that, the students will "punish" lower ranked students as a result, and you have a horde of bullies on your hands.

Maybe it didn't come across as I'd intended. Re-reading I suppose it does come across that way. But I wasn't punishing him by beating him up. I don't hurt kids. Instead I just closed up guard and kept dodging his attacks, moving off so he couldn't score. Usually when I spar the kids I'll be easy on them and leave myself wide open so they learn where the shots are and give them plenty of opportunity to take it. With this kid I didn't make it easy and since I was just tapping his headguard I think the tears were more frustration than anything else.

It was definitely not my intention to make him cry and I felt extremely bad about it and stopped as soon as I saw he was. It wasn't outright crying anyway, just a little sniffle which stopped as soon as I taught him some stuff to do to stop me catching him. I'm not the instructor btw.

[Martialart]

Daniel is a true passive-aggressive. And they can be bullies themselves, if not physically, by their other behavior.

Agreed. Especially in adult years and in the workplace. These are the people who press and press always hoping you'll lash out at them so they can say, "I don't know what happened; he (or she) just flew off the handle at me, and all I was trying to do was show her how to do this or that."

For instance, I know a woman at work who is a bully. She's also the most gregarious and social person on the unit. Everyone loves her. And yet, she talks about everyone who loves her behind their back. She plots and schemes, and she can be hugging someone and smiling with them one minute, and as soon as they leave the room turn to another and say, "Don't ever trust that person. They do this and this, and they've done it with everyone in the hosptial, and they...on and on." Yet she was just hugging them and smiling at them and pretending to be their best friend. And you can't talk bad about her because she's been there so long and is friends with all the managers. To say anything would mean it getting back to her, and her in turn trying to ruin you in the eyes of the supervisors and coworkers.

I have been fortunate to see all this ahead of time and sidestep her for the most part. I also happen to be good at my job, get along well with others, and I have no problem working on nights with an old nurse who no one else wants to work with (I think she's fine once you take the time to get to know her.). So, I'm in like cement. But I can't help thinking it would be really good to see the downfall of this most evil type of workplace bully.

But, truth be known, she's moved to another shift, the people she's attacked the most have moved on or away, and so it's not really my affair anymore--it never actually was. But I am fortunate to have seen it so I can understand it. Is there such a thing as mental martial arts?

[Chitsu]

Is there such a thing as mental martial arts?

I'd say a fair bit of all martial art was mental:

Kikioji

Mikuzuri

Futanren

"Daunted on hearing - cowed at sight - inadequate training"

All will cause defeat - before the (physical) fight even starts.

Chitsu

[Toptomcat]

What are you quoting?

[Sibylla]

Daniel is a true passive-aggressive. And they can be bullies themselves, if not physically, by their other behavior.

Agreed. Especially in adult years and in the workplace. These are the people who press and press always hoping you'll lash out at them so they can say, "I don't know what happened; he (or she) just flew off the handle at me, and all I was trying to do was show her how to do this or that."

For instance, I know a woman at work who is a bully. She's also the most gregarious and social person on the unit. Everyone loves her. And yet, she talks about everyone who loves her behind their back. She plots and schemes, and she can be hugging someone and smiling with them one minute, and as soon as they leave the room turn to another and say, "Don't ever trust that person. They do this and this, and they've done it with everyone in the hosptial, and they...on and on." Yet she was just hugging them and smiling at them and pretending to be their best friend. And you can't talk bad about her because she's been there so long and is friends with all the managers. To say anything would mean it getting back to her, and her in turn trying to ruin you in the eyes of the supervisors and coworkers.

I have been fortunate to see all this ahead of time and sidestep her for the most part. I also happen to be good at my job, get along well with others, and I have no problem working on nights with an old nurse who no one else wants to work with (I think she's fine once you take the time to get to know her.). So, I'm in like cement. But I can't help thinking it would be really good to see the downfall of this most evil type of workplace bully.

But, truth be known, she's moved to another shift, the people she's attacked the most have moved on or away, and so it's not really my affair anymore--it never actually was. But I am fortunate to have seen it so I can understand it. Is there such a thing as mental martial arts?

I trained with a (highly) passive-agressive head instructor for years. First I was confused but then due to what was happening again and again I came to a realization about what it was. And then a final realization about what I could do about it..nothing and get out of there. So I set a final leave date, and before that date I tried to get as many seminars and competions in as I could. I loved the art but I had a limit to as long I could continue to take what I was getting.