MA organization asking for info..

[Sibylla]

Not sure that it's legal to ask about religion here either (Scandinavia). I think the form may have to do with the style being from the Phillipines, the cultural background, but still what happens if they don't like the answers?

I'll keep you updated.

[tonydee]

Not saying I agree with them asking for all this (I'm in the middle of filling out employee profile information for my new employer - an American company - and more annoyed with invasive questions than usual), but to give some possible explanations...

- photos are obviously useful for instructors to recognise students - in my old school, each grading application would have a photo glued in the corner so the master instructor could quickly check they were making comments against the correct student, whom he might not see between gradings (having been in international and national scale schools). Instructors may want to browse through the students records sometimes before a grading, or just to check enrolement dates and progress etc., make sure they don't embarasingly (and perhaps for the student hurtfully) forget a students' name during a long absence), and the photos can be useful in those respects.

- At best, asking about religion may be a ham-fisted attempt to infer whether there could be other issues - unwanted medical treatment, dietary restrictions at any events, etc.. Totally inappropriate though.

Age, address, emergency contacts, medical conditions - fair enough I'd say. Prior martial arts experience - can understand why they might worry about that: knowing what techniques might spontaneously occur in the heat of the moment, what kind of contact level someone might expect to be ok etc. can help in tailoring a suitable introduction to the art, as well as be cited in support of rapid promotion. All the address and contact information is a little bizarre though, but the school may have had an incident where they thought it expedient to contact someone's old school - a case of claims based on a false credential, a member prone to violence who proved to have a history of expulsion from other groups etc.. Might not be ill-intentioned, but it's certainly pushing the boundaries privacy wise.

Sadly, seems the world's heading this way. I'm having to sign forms saying the company can ask anyone anything they like about me, and I've no right of recourse regardless of whether they tell the truth or not. Do it or don't get the job, which is harsh to find out after you've resigned from the old employer.

Cheers,

Tony

[bushido_man96]

It is not illegal to ask about religion. It is illegal to discriminate because of religion. Two very different things.

It could be that the org is just wanting to get a feel for the demographics that make it up. All kinds of businesses do this.

Now, if you feel uncomfortable about filling it out, then ask questions as to why they are doing it. If you don't like it, just don't do it. Now, if they have a problem with that, then leave. Simple solutions all around.

[Toptomcat]

There are a number of countries in which is is illegal even to ask, actually.

[bushido_man96]

Well, not in the U.S. On job apps and such, it does become an issue. However, this is not a job app being discussed here, and so I don't see how it can be a legal problem.

[mr_obvious]

At first glance I definitely like the solution proposed by mr_obvious -- "religion = violence" However... it is likely you would be pegged as being a smart alec with those kinds of answers, and that could be bad.!

You say that like smart alecs are bad...! We could always adapt the old adage: "if they don't like the answers, they shouldn't ask the questions."

[CTTKDKing]

I even have to fill out religion and birthplace. I understand instructors want to know things about the student, but that takes place in a conversation..

I'm a bit at a loss now, I want to train there but if I fill out that form it gives me a sense of uncertainty.

The religion question is really puzzling.

Actually the religion thing doesn't surprise me that much. We had a child student with divorced parents, who's father signed him up for classes in our 7-12 year old sessions. The kid loved it and was doing well especially for his age. He came 4 times in his first week and his father said he was very excited to do it every day. He'd be waiting in his uniform when his dad came home from work. The following week he was with his mother and she (being a uninformed fundamentalist Christian) was very upset about his father signign him up for TKD classes when she believed it to be evil. She believed that TKD coming from Korea automatically associated it with "Buddhism and witchcraft" (her exact words). Sadly I was there to witness the confrontation between her and my instructor. It made no difference to her that the style was not religion biased, or that my instructor is Catholic.

My point is, now my instructor always asks if there is any religious problems that could arise from other family members and asks a couple questions about the family situation for child students, and explains his views on the subject before signing anyone up. He does not do it in writing like the place discussed at the beginning of this thread does and I think a lot of the other information requested is a little odd, but if you have a problem sharing it, then ask if there is any way you can sign up and not share the info you deem too personal. If not, I suggest you find a new place to train. I'm sure you can find something. Good luck.

[Sibylla]

I hope to train tomorrow and I'll ask them then. Regarding the religion question, I've been introduced to a pattern/form that was named after a Catholic saint that depicted that saint going against the devil. I'm not religious in any way myself, and if anything just found it interesting. Just as the Japanese arts touches on their spiritual beliefs and you get an deeper insight in the basis of what you do. I hope/believe that there is no underlying religious reqruitment going on here.