1st Dan is Enough!

[Martialart]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say that considering the circumstances of your training and your personal goals, I think that this is the right decision for you.

I also think that your experience in martial arts is far too narrow to legitimately write a book about the psychological component of MA training, though.

Well, given it's an original concept that I discovered in my own training, if I don't write it--even given my lack of experience--I'm not sure who else is going to do so. And by the time I publish it (if I ever publish it) I will be a black belt in Taekwondo. I don't feel the need to tell you about my qualifications in psychology, so we won't go there, but as far as narrow experience goes, what about Bruce Lee? Technically speaking he had a very narrow experience in martial arts. For that matter Gichen Funakoshi had a very narrow experience in martial arts. I mean, actually, when someone says they study six different martial arts, I truly wonder if they are any good at any of them.

Besides, without delving into the subject matter--which is premature at this point--for my theory, any martial art or weapons system would apply. Shoot, you could even be a boxer.

[Martialart]

Just train to your satisfaction, and don't concern yourself greatly with the belt that you are awarded.

Good advice.

[Toptomcat]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say that considering the circumstances of your training and your personal goals, I think that this is the right decision for you.

I also think that your experience in martial arts is far too narrow to legitimately write a book about the psychological component of MA training, though.

Well, given it's an original concept that I discovered in my own training, if I don't write it--even given my lack of experience--I'm not sure who else is going to do so. And by the time I publish it (if I ever publish it) I will be a black belt in Taekwondo. I don't feel the need to tell you about my qualifications in psychology, so we won't go there, but as far as narrow experience goes, what about Bruce Lee? Technically speaking he had a very narrow experience in martial arts. For that matter Gichen Funakoshi had a very narrow experience in martial arts. I mean, actually, when someone says they study six different martial arts, I truly wonder if they are any good at any of them.

Wing Chun, boxing, and fencing were the cornerstones of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do: he studied each of them in remarkable depth, and also devoted a good deal of study to karate, judo, Thai boxing, and wrestling among other systems. Bruce Lee practically defines breadth in martial arts: calling his experience 'very narrow' is almost as far from the truth as it is possible to be.

And I would be very uncomfortable drawing general conclusions about the psyche of martial artists in general from your experience, which appears limited to Wado karate and McDojo Taekwondo: the culture of Kyokushin is different from the culture of boxing, which is different from the culture of McDojo Taekwondo, which is different from the culture of judo, which is different from the culture of wrestling. They attract people of different psychological profiles who want to study for different reasons, and I think generalizing from one without first making an effort to experience the other would be foolish. Even if your psychological credentials themselves are strong, if you choose to apply that acumen only to an artificially limited set of subjects your results are bound to be distorted.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Toptomcat

[DWx]

I don't think there's anything wrong with staying at a grade for a number of years or even indefinitely. Just make sure you are doing it for all the right reasons. And that you still continue to learn and improve. First dan is not the end of the road; its just the beginning.

Saving face so you don't get beaten by a lower rank is totally not the reason to stay at a level. Rank's not really that great a indication of skill anyway. I know a number of 1st dans who are awesome sparrers and could beat me if they wanted. Neither are the higher-up dans a class of superheros that always kick high and break every board.

[Tzu-Logic]

Just train to your satisfaction, and don't concern yourself greatly with the belt that you are awarded.

Good advice.

agreed.

I guess it's really up to you where you want to train to. I know at my particular school that black belt is just the beginning and after you get black belt you get to start going to a whole new set of classes. I personally would like to get 2nd or even 3rd dan which could almost take 10 years for me to do. But first i must just focus on reaching the beginning within the next couple of years here.

One thing I try to keep in mind about belts is that they do not dictate who you are. They are merely an indication of how far you along you are in the schools curriculum.

[Martialart]

And I would be very uncomfortable drawing general conclusions about the psyche of martial artists in general from your experience, which appears limited to Wado karate and McDojo Taekwondo:

No, no, no Top Tomcat, I don't study McDojo Taekwondo. It's actually called Ho-Am Taekwondo, and from my study of Taekwondo forms, it's indistinguishable from the traditional Taekwondo of the ITF. It's actually very good, in my opinion, especially in a world where everything seems to be going to sport martial arts. In addition, we spar every class, we do calesthenics and line work and target work, too. There's nothing wrong with the Taekwondo or the class for that matter--it just so happens to be taught in a McDojo.

And actually, I've been involved in Higashi Karate, Wado-Ryu Karate, WTF Taekwondo, and now Ho-Am Taekwondo.

the culture of Kyokushin is different from the culture of boxing, which is different from the culture of McDojo Taekwondo, which is different from the culture of judo, which is different from the culture of wrestling. They attract people of different psychological profiles who want to study for different reasons, and I think generalizing from one without first making an effort to experience the other would be foolish. Even if your psychological credentials themselves are strong, if you choose to apply that acumen only to an artificially limited set of subjects your results are bound to be distorted.

Well, if that's what I was writing about I suppose you'd have a valid point. But I'm not, so...

[Martialart]

I don't think there's anything wrong with staying at a grade for a number of years or even indefinitely. Just make sure you are doing it for all the right reasons. And that you still continue to learn and improve. First dan is not the end of the road; its just the beginning.

Saving face so you don't get beaten by a lower rank is totally not the reason to stay at a level. Rank's not really that great a indication of skill anyway. I know a number of 1st dans who are awesome sparrers and could beat me if they wanted. Neither are the higher-up dans a class of superheros that always kick high and break every board.

I hear you. And like I said, I understand the need for extending the dan ranks within a martial art school or association. You have to in order to grade people to 1st dan, and so on. I just have no desire to open a school or "move up" in the organization.

[still kicking]

DWx wrote:

I don't think there's anything wrong with staying at a grade for a number of years or even indefinitely. Just make sure you are doing it for all the right reasons.

Good point, I think I have to revise what I said before about wanting to keep advancing through ranks to keep sharp. We have several 1st dans who have been training for 15 or 16 years, and aren't intersted in ranking higher. I think it's partly because it involves travel and costs money, but maybe mostly they don't think it's important. When we train at "headquarters", they don't segregate the bb's by rank, it's just a matter of what you know. I do think training for rank can make you train harder, but there are other ways of motivating yourself, too. It's just crazed how much of a big deal it all becomes sometimes. (rank, I mean)

[Martialart]

I guess it's really up to you where you want to train to. I know at my particular school that black belt is just the beginning and after you get black belt you get to start going to a whole new set of classes. I personally would like to get 2nd or even 3rd dan which could almost take 10 years for me to do. But first i must just focus on reaching the beginning within the next couple of years here.

One thing I try to keep in mind about belts is that they do not dictate who you are. They are merely an indication of how far you along you are in the schools curriculum.

Yes, I notice that a lot of schools have as many dan ranks as they do kyu ranks--mine included. But I guess I'm just interested in the curriculum to the level of 1st dan. You know, our school even has levels of each dan. Level 1 - 4, and they actually embroider that on the belt. Anything for grading fees I suppose. I guess I would want to be a 1st dan level 4.

I don't know, I just get the feeling that for me, going beyond that is pushing for something that just never mattered to me. It's like someone else telling me what I should want. I want to be a really good black belt in Taekwondo. I never even wanted to go beyond that until someone told me I should want to go beyond that.

And I love the way everyone shot down my idea of black belt as a noble institution but now waits in line to tell me how important it is to progress up as many dans as possible. Well, I've come to the conclusion that black belts are not a noble class, but at the same time, I've also determined that anything above 1st dan is a waste of my time.

Not that I wouldn't continue training or teaching lower grades. In fact, I'd probably be better at teaching lower grades because my focus would be on the forms and techniques from white belt to black belt. I wouldn't be preoccupied with my own progression--just my own perfection.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Martialart

[Martialart]

Good point, I think I have to revise what I said before about wanting to keep advancing through ranks to keep sharp. We have several 1st dans who have been training for 15 or 16 years, and aren't intersted in ranking higher. I think it's partly because it involves travel and costs money, but maybe mostly they don't think it's important. When we train at "headquarters", they don't segregate the bb's by rank, it's just a matter of what you know. I do think training for rank can make you train harder, but there are other ways of motivating yourself, too. It's just crazed how much of a big deal it all becomes sometimes. (rank, I mean)

I second that.