Martial Artists of Noble Stature

[Blade96]

just train!

a wise old sensei

Already decided to do that. I'm way ahead of you. I really loves my shotokan! and i'm not quitting because of a few snobby black belts.

Btw you do sound a wise old sensei.

But i never ever thought of leaving.

[Blade96]

btw i've a bachelor's degree - BA, Bachelor of Arts -

but no black belt.

I am a yellow belt in Shotokan. I'm perfectly ok with that. I moved up from white belt and throughly enjoying being a yellow belt.

[Toptomcat]

So if the black belts aren't treated as a different social class, and there are those among your black belts who are fundamentally unimpressive people, from whence came this idea of yours that a black belt is a person of a different social class and an inherently noble person?

Actually, now that I think on it, I have no idea. Seriously. Having explored the issue, and thought about it a great deal, I see no inherent nobility. There is a class of persons--the warrior class--that is made up of soldiers, policemen, firefighters, and I believe martial artists. But that class is not noble, not inherently.

In fact, outside of monarchies where there is a formal nobility (and even that isn't much more than a spectacle in the modern world), I'm not sure there is any such thing as noble classes or castes. There are classes, but people do not typically think of a firefighter as being inherently better than they are, as people.

But nobility, itself, still fascinates me, because I know it when I see it. Perhaps it comes from the Kingdom of Heaven (define that how you will). And I know that nobility is passed on, or at least its influence is often passed on. If one had a noble grandfather, or father, or grandmother or mother, they are more likely to be noble themselves. Or maybe it's always first generation only.

And it seems to me that noble people are truly better people than non-noble people (ignoble? Lowly, common, trashy?). In other words, the world would truly be better if there were more noble people in it and less ignoble people in it.

But what is noble? What does it mean to be noble? Can one even choose it?

You might want to start by reading Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, which has probably done more than any other single work to influence Western ideas of what it means to be noble or virtuous. Here is a workable translation.

To very broadly summarize its thrust, it presents personal excellence not as any single, unitary trait, identifiable in and of itself, but as being composed of many distinct virtues such as courage, temperance, generosity, honesty, and the like.

[bushido_man96]

But what is noble? What does it mean to be noble? Can one even choose it?

One can choose how he acts, and how he lives, and he treats and interacts with others. As opposed to worrying about whether people assume I am noble or not, I choose to try to live well, do the right things, make good decisions, and be a good father, husband, and worker.

Now, not everyone thinks like this. There are those who try to work people over for whatever they can, steal, demean, and do other things to bring someone down, either to get themselves ahead, or, just because they like to hurt others.

And, even more unfortunately, both of these groups have black belts among them. I'm sure that there are even some people who are viewed as "noble" that come from both of those groups.

In the end, maybe its just semantics.

[Martialart]

But what is noble? What does it mean to be noble? Can one even choose it?

One can choose how he acts, and how he lives, and he treats and interacts with others. As opposed to worrying about whether people assume I am noble or not, I choose to try to live well, do the right things, make good decisions, and be a good father, husband, and worker.

Now, not everyone thinks like this. There are those who try to work people over for whatever they can, steal, demean, and do other things to bring someone down, either to get themselves ahead, or, just because they like to hurt others.

And, even more unfortunately, both of these groups have black belts among them. I'm sure that there are even some people who are viewed as "noble" that come from both of those groups.

In the end, maybe its just semantics.

Good word. In the end, nobility, that which makes one person better than another person, is ultimately decided by God. No God; no nobility. But either way, maybe it's as you imply: we need to get on with the task of living right.

The way I see it now, if God thinks I'm noble, then I am. If He doesn't, it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. Either way, the question of my nobility is not one I can answer.

[Bruce1709]

There is absolutely a nobility of a martial artist. The discipline and structure a non-martial artist just doesn't have.

[Kuma]

There is absolutely a nobility of a martial artist. The discipline and structure a non-martial artist just doesn't have.

Professional athletes and other people dedicated to a physical activity also have discipline and structure though.

[bushido_man96]

There is absolutely a nobility of a martial artist. The discipline and structure a non-martial artist just doesn't have.

Professional athletes and other people dedicated to a physical activity also have discipline and structure though.

Agreed. It comes from anyone willing to dedicate time and effort in anything that they feel is important to them, and want to become good at. Heck, even professional video game players have these attributes, when it comes to their trade.

Also, I don't think discipline and structure = nobility. Discipline is just a willingness to stick to task, persevere, and finish. Structure is basically being methodical about it. This will sound a bit rash, but these are even traits that serial killers have, and I don't think any of us would view them as "noble."

In the end, my point is that many Martial Arts organizations or high ranked teachers, officials, etc, like to push this idea that the Martial Arts will make people such better people, when in the end, it is up to each person as to how good, how noble, they will be in the end. Martial Arts training hasn't made me into a better person. I like to think that I was a good person to begin with, and that the work ethics and morals taught to me by my parents are what make me who I am, and helped me to be able to achieve what I have thus far in life, and I don't tie it all into the idea that if I had not found Taekwondo, that I would be a lesser person than I am today.