Be or not to be....Martial artist or sport martial artist?

[pakua]

The all idea is if you can call "martial art" the kind of practice that look after competitions all the time. Or just some Sport called martial arts...

Martial ART...art it's an expression of something using different techniques. There is no way that you can classify an ART work, you can't said: this one is better than that one.

[Toptomcat]

If defined exclusively as personal expression or something that can be evaluated only through aesthetic taste, then there is nothing that separates martial art from modern dance. The 'art' in 'martial art' is more productively defined as 'art' in the sense of 'the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning', rather than in as 'art' as fine art.

You are free to learn whatever you please, but if your training proceeds exclusively on aesthetic principles and cannot be judged independently of them then it doesn't fit my definition of 'martial art'.

[pakua]

Well...I can't see how you can define art as a principles or methods. Those terms are maybe a part of how to do art, how to practice art, but never the Art itself.

And you can see the "art" not only in the movements, in the aesthetic side. The Art in martial art it's much much more than that

[Toptomcat]

Please elaborate, then.

[pakua]

I think that you are trying to said about the aesthetic side is that you are talking about how a martial art practitioner moves...I'm right?....I assume that the answer is yes...

But I understand the Art like a way of expression, expression of feelings and that can't be measured.

[DWx]

I don't think you can really draw the line between sportsman and martial artist and allow people to only tick one box. Even if someone is more favoured to one or the other there is a certain degree of cross-over. And as Martialart said, people's reasons and interests in the martial arts will change at different points in their lves.

... in competition you will never be the best, always someone will come and become a better fighter.

That is totally right. You will never be the best. But you can still strive to be up there with the best. And this is definitely something that your "martial artists" should aim for too. My coach is always saying, "however hard you're training, someone else is training harder".

[Toptomcat]

Okay, we've found the foundation of our disagreement. You believe that the martial arts are primarily a form of artistic self-expression in the fine-arts sense of 'artistic', and that competition hinders this self-expression. I think I agree that if that's how you see martial arts then competition is largely pointless.

I believe that the martial arts are primarily about attaining the skills and mindset necessary for effective self-defense, and that competition can sharpen those skills and promote that mindset. Do you agree that competition can be good for martial arts as I define it?

Edited May 8, 2010 by Toptomcat

[Martialart]

When we call martial arts an art, I was always under the impression that it meant a skill that is highly developed, as in "arts and crafts." I never thought it meant art in the same way that an abstract painting is art, which would mean something created that is highly original and emotionally evocative.

I do not create new things within Taekwondo; I perfect my ability to do those things that are already there.

[bushido_man96]

Today many martial arts teach to get in to a competition, to get results, medals...but where is the real meaning of practicing martial art?. I mean, the real idea of practice martial art, if you will use in a real situation, is just for one reason: survive.

But today is not what we see....The simple practice for the "art" or to find the meaning of practice being a better human being, growth in a physical and spiritual way...where is all this today?.

Training to be the best in a competition is great, nothing against that, but you are not doing Martial Art, you are just practicing Sports....like anyone that practice football, cricket or archery.

The "real meaning" of practicing Martial Arts is going to be different to everyone. Many fighters do so because of the continuing chances to prove themselves. I don't call this ego; its putting your training to the test.

There are many Martial Artists who practice forms or basics, and do little fighting of any kind....yet how is that "Martial?"

Martial Sports are still Martial Arts....they just compete and put it on the line a lot more often.

[bushido_man96]

The all idea is if you can call "martial art" the kind of practice that look after competitions all the time. Or just some Sport called martial arts...

Martial ART...art it's an expression of something using different techniques. There is no way that you can classify an ART work, you can't said: this one is better than that one.

Fighting is a form of expression as well.