Karate-ka overly Japanophile?

[Alcatraz]

Now before I start, i want to make it clear that I am aware that Okinawa is a devolved prefecture of Japan,, but for the purpose of this discussion, when discussing Japan, I am talking of 'Mainland' Japan as opposed to Okinawa.

Karate only reached the shores of the UK in the late 1950's, which if I'm not mistaken, was just 30 or so years after Karate was introduced to main-land Japan from its prefecture of Okinawa.

30 years in the grand scheme of things is no time at all.

So my question is, why do so many Western Karate-ka feel this need to almost deify Japanese instructors?

There seems to be prevailent thought amongst Karate-ka that the 'Holy Grail' of Karate study can only be found in Japan,and whilst Western Karate-ka are very highly respected, there appears to many, to be an almost mystical view towards Japanese Karate-ka.

Just to illustrate, I'll tell you a wee story...

I had a student of Chinese-Malaysian origin called Tony Au. Tony was born and raised in Glasgow (Scotland) as were his parents, and as such, Tony was/is as Scottish as I am. Tony is now about 45, so he was about 40 when this story happened. Like many blokes these days (myself included) Tony always had a shaved head.

One night we had a guy come in to discuss joining the class, before the class started.

We were all limbering up killing a few minutes until everyone was ready, and the guy heads straight to Tony, bows from the waist and hollers 'Oss'. The guy the went on to ask Tony if it would be OK for him and his kid to join the class, and that he had some experience as a 1st Kyu in Shotokan.

Tony nodded his head, pointed towards me and said (imagine a strong but polite Glaswegian accent), "Aye. It shouldn't be a problem, but you better ask the big man over there. It is his class after all."

The guy looked as though the bottom fell out of his world.

Firstly he had mistaken a Scottish guy of Chinese-Malaysian origin as a Japanese Sensei.

Secondly he assumed that Tony was the highest grade, when infact he(Tony) had only recently, about 3 weeks before the incident, passed his Shodan, and I had just passed my Yondan.

The question from my little tale is; why are people so pre-disposed into believing that people of Asian origin are always going to be better instructors?

We could back and forth all day giving examples of good Japanese instruction and good Western instruction, but I would like to close by giving two final anecdotes relating to this topic from my many years in Karate.

1.

About 3 years ago I was invited to teach on a triple instructor seminar down in Newcastle, teaching the Ryuei-ryu Kata Paiku.

Now when it comes to 'lining up', I'm not a stickler for doing it by grade, but I was a tad annoyed when a visiting Japanese Sandan student was lined up as being senior to me.

I approached the organising instructor ( a Shukokai Godan) after the seminar, and he told me that the reason he placed the Japanese Sandan ahead of me, was not to disrespect me, but to show respect to the visiting Japanese Sandan.

Said Japanese Sandan incidently was not visiting from Japan solely for this seminar. He was living in Hexham on a student visa as a foreign University syudent

2.

I used to live in Peterborough down in England from when I was 19 till I was 22. During that time I had the good fortune to be invited to train at the Dojo of a famous Japanese Shotokan Sensei based out of Nottingham, which when you consider I'm not a Shotokan stylist was quite an honour (I had performed an Okinawan Kata demo at a Shotokan tournament in Peterborough. The same Peterborough Dojo who invited me to do the demo had passed a VHS copy of the event to their 'Higher-ups' and thus the invite to train with said Japanese Sensei.)

Unfortunatly, on the day I arrived in Nottingham the Japanese Sensei had flu, and was unable to attend, but I was asked to stay by an English assistant instructor. The guy was very nice and soft spoken.

However, when he started giving his instruction, he started speaking in almost incomprehensible pigeon English with a pseudo-Japanese accent.

This is the deification of which I'm discussing at an extreme.

Does anyone else find that the concept of Japanophilia borders on racial snobbery, and could be seen as demeaning to non-Japanese Karate-ka who may have a better understanding of the arts than their Japanese peers?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[Jeffrey]

I think far too often we take these kinds of isolated incidents to heart. I use the term isolated because if not it puts an entire nation of people in the same group. Where ever you travel you find people of a nation or culture who exhibit the kind of racial/cultural snobbery you are describing. It is not just a, “we invented karate so we are better at it”. It is a cultural thing.

I will use hockey as an example. I’m from Canada and in Canada we often feel we are better at hockey because it was a Canadian sport. So we are a bit snobbery about it. It’s something we don’t often mean to do it is just how Canadians are brought up and it is passed on to generation to generation. Karate is the equivalent to Japan as Hockey is to Canada.

Don’t take these things to heart. Open your self to those who think they are better because of cultural background and prove yourself through example. Hopefully those who visit can take back your examples and help bring together borders and end racial snobbery.

[still kicking]

Once when I was training in our organization's home dojo in Hawaii (a rare occurrence), there were also about 6 visiting students from Japan present. They were all wearing white belts, and stood at the end of the line. As soon as we started training, though, it was very obvious that they were some degree of black belt, they were very skilled, not to mention humble and respectful. So that is my limited experience with training with Japanese people (as opposed to Japanese-Americans). It was also a good lesson on the importance or lack of importance of what belt we are wearing. If you are skilled it will show.

[Alcatraz]

I think I've been misunderstood.

My complaint isn't that the Japanese/Okinawans themselves are snobbish about thier Karate, but rather the fact that non Japanese/Okinawans have a Japanophile attitude to Karate; that somehow Japanese/Okinawan Karate-ka are automatically going to be superior Karate-ka than someone who is not Japanese/Okinawan.

I'm sure that we would all agree, that to hold to that opinion does border on racial snobbery.

[Lupin1]

Yeah, I used to have those ideas when I was little. At my school we have two white instructors and an instructor of Korean descent (but born and raised American) and when I was little I was always so excited when the Korean instructor taught me things just because I thought he was the best since he was asian even though he'd been training the least amount of time of the three instructors. I think it was movies and tv that gave me that idea.

Now that I'm older and look at the world a little differently, he's the instructor I least like working with because he doesn't have the patience and good way of explaining things of our senior instructor and he doesn't have the subtle way of treating me like "one of the guys" (which I LOVE) that our 2nd instructor has. So I think for it was mostly youthful ignorance, but I blame Hollywood.

[username13768]

Too much television and too many movies. I know what you are saying and I've seen it too. I probably used to think like that myself when I first started training but that's been a few years ago.

As an aside to your story, I was eating dinner with Demura Fumio Sensei after a seminar some years ago and he said that the best karate is being taught outside Japan these days.

To sum things up again I say too many movies and not enough knowledge about martial arts reality. Heck I still want to know when I get to learn how to fly from tree to tree and melt people with my super kiai stare.

[bushido_man96]

This is not something I have experienced. It does sound goofy, though, especially faking an accent.

[JohnASE]

I think I've been misunderstood.

My complaint isn't that the Japanese/Okinawans themselves are snobbish about thier Karate, but rather the fact that non Japanese/Okinawans have a Japanophile attitude to Karate; that somehow Japanese/Okinawan Karate-ka are automatically going to be superior Karate-ka than someone who is not Japanese/Okinawan.

I'm sure that we would all agree, that to hold to that opinion does border on racial snobbery.

It might be racial snobbery, but like many stereotypes, there might be some basis in fact. I'm not saying that they're "automatically going to be superior" or that I think they even have an advantage, but there might be factors that could lead reasonable people to make such assumptions.

Assuming we're talking about traditional Japanese arts and their offshoots, a high proportion of the top ranks are Japanese nationals. How many non-Japanese are there at 8th Dan or higher? Not due to some innate natural or cultural advantage, but just that not as many non-Japanese have been training for 45 or 50 years. Also, the policies of many Japanese organizations make it difficult for foreigners to attain higher ranks, if for no other reason than they need to fly to Japan to test or have testers flown to them. Whether or not it's intentional, policies like this will contribute to a disproportionate number of higher ranks being Japanese.

Also, what Japanese national karate-ka is a Westerner likely to come across? Someone giving a seminar? An international level competitor? Often, someone of above average experience or talent. In some parts of the world, you might be unlikely to meet Japanese karate-ka other than a Demura or a Kanazawa or a Higaonna in town for a seminar.

If the karate elite are mostly Japanese, isn't it understandable that the rank and file would think Japanese karate-ka are better on average.

Oh, and a non-Japanese person speaking English with a Japanese accent is just wrong! Now, having said that, I've found that Japanese native speakers with poor English language skills often understand English better if spoken with a Japanese accent.

[Lupin1]

Now, having said that, I've found that Japanese native speakers with poor English language skills often understand English better if spoken with a Japanese accent.

Haha. When I was Germany for three weeks with an exchange program (so living with a German family and going to a German school and stuff) everyone in our group found ourselves speaking English with a German accent just because it seemed to help the older Germans understand it better if we didn't know the German for something (since they knew better English thn we knew German). It's funny how that works.

[Shizentai]

My complaint isn't that the Japanese/Okinawans themselves are snobbish about thier Karate, but rather the fact that non Japanese/Okinawans have a Japanophile attitude to Karate; that somehow Japanese/Okinawan Karate-ka are automatically going to be superior Karate-ka than someone who is not Japanese/Okinawan.

I'm sure that we would all agree, that to hold to that opinion does border on racial snobbery.

You know, having had an instructor who was himself born and trained in Japan, I'm sure my opinion is biased. However, I don't really care what people think of how my skin color reflects my karate. I mean hey, I'm already a 110lb tiny woman with thick glasses who still gets mistaken for a pre-teen on a regular basis. On my uniform I wear no patches, on my belt no stripes, no embroidery anywhere. No one is ever going to expect great things of me based on superficial appearances, with or without my mostly Caucasian features.

...and frankly, I wouldn't have it any other way.

When people underestimate you, it's easier to prove them wrong. Personally, I don't need pride, I don't care about a pecking order, and I certainly don't want a superficially won reverence from those that I teach. I think that karate transcends all of these things, even if beginners' minds do not. Give them time and I'm sure they'll come around.