I really hate forms

[kamahlthedruid]

Grand Master Gary Alexander said you have to feel like you are in an actual situation when you are fighting, and I think Ashihara people would agree with him.

[sensei8]

The following is an exert from the book "Unante, The Secrets of Karate" writtten by Sensei John Sells...

"To summarize, a kata is both performed and experienced. It is not good enough simply to have a "pretty" kata. Karate is, above all, a martial art. The "martial" must be maifested in kata. Power should be exuded, focused and unleashed in burst of quick, yet manifestly potent characteristics that make karate work. Kata is not a separate form of karate, but an integrated traiing drill, as well as an expression of skill"

That statement stresses not only my thoughts on kata, the the thoughts of numerous other martial artist who train specifically for real life encounters as opposed to the performance of "pretty" kata.

I have no doubt in my mind that changing the rhythm/timing of the kata is done on purpose, and it is totally acceptable and even encouraged in advanced ranks. For advanced students, rhythm/timing should always be dependant on the specific attacks and applications being envisioned by the senior student.

[username13768]

I agree with sensei8 here. In a well understood and executed kata there isn't a single wasted movement. The older, historical katas or forms (and I'm talking about Okinawan Karate from my personal experience) are the synthesis of a masters personal style. In the kata you would find the entire system of combat. However, you need first to be taught the techniques within the forms various meanings. Or, you should at least be taught to "unlock" the movements within a form. For example: turning left in to a left front stance and executing a left downward block is only that at the most elementary level. There are a multitude of other techniques that use this same movement. Each meaning makes the katas appearance change slightly to the trained observer. So an experienced teacher should be able to tell your intentions from the minute details of a form. I'll stop ranting now. lol

I also wanted to add that these details don't need to be performed "pretty", but they do need to be precise. If you look at old video of the old masters performing kata some of them by today's standards look like crap ...... or do they? Try looking up videos or photos of Soken Hohan or even Funakoshi Gichin. You might be able to see what I mean.

[bushido_man96]

Forms have pros and cons. There are plenty of styles out there that don't do forms training, and finding one of those should help you accomplish your training goals.

[username13768]

bushido_man96 what cons do forms have other than not having proper training in their use?

[bushido_man96]

Cons to forms can be anything from taking up training time that could be better put to use with partner training, no resistance to any techniques, and they fail to develop a sense of timing in relation to interacting with others.

[tallgeese]

Bingo, bushido man. Timing, realisim, accuracy, ect. are all vicitms of excessive kata.

To me, kata has kind of had it's day and gone. At one time, it was probabily cutting edge training technology that was needed based on the political situation of the day.

Now, we are under no such constraints. We can do two man work without fear of political reprocussions. Furter, as with all things, training has evoloved. There are now methods that can eclipse kata in both learning time and combative efficiency.

If one likes kata based on cultural reverence or tradion, that's fine. But as a training tool for combatives there are much more effective methods of transmitting knowledge and sharpening skills.

[kamahlthedruid]

I think I shall remain with isd despite some bad things I've heard about the Mechling brothers from one of their masters. I trust the Mechling brothers because they seem like good guys. Does everyone here think mastering two katas per belt level is difficult?

[bushido_man96]

It depends on the amount of time you have to put into them, and what is expected out of them. If you are expected to break down applications out of both, then two per belt might be a bit much. If not, then it might be ok.

[kamahlthedruid]

I found this from another martial arts forum. I don't think the Mechling brothers are frauds.

McDojo or Not?

http://www.isdc.net

After two years of training here I am a blue belt or the first rank of being considered an advanced student. We learn 15 different martial arts (writer wrote wrong amount of styles, so i changed it). There are 4 instructors, two for our base martial arts, one for judo and one for tai chi. We do sparring, grappling, and free sparring. Most of our work is done in small groups sparring or learning from the teachers or a higher ranked student some times the teacher will show a technique or set of techniques and we all line up and preform it about 10 times or until we show we can do it. Our students almost always do well in tournaments. We only have one black belt under 23 he's 17 and most are 30 or older. The only things I don't like are that belt tests have fee's, and you have to learn 1 to 2 forms per rank before you can advance. Check out the site and tell me what you think.