more Karate in the UFC

[bushido_man96]

If we use a cement floor and put people in gi, I think that Judo will have a major impact in MMA.

If we remove gloves, I think fighters will change the way they punch.

This may be the case. But do we really want to see? A street fight, or a competition where these guys can come away and compete again in 3 to 6 months?

[MasterPain]

If we use a cement floor and put people in gi, I think that Judo will have a major impact in MMA.

If we remove gloves, I think fighters will change the way they punch.

This may be the case. But do we really want to see? A street fight, or a competition where these guys can come away and compete again in 3 to 6 months?

For real. We could take away the Dog Brothers' headgear and kempo gloves and replace their sissy shock knives with butcher knives, too. Everyone involved dies, but it's real.

[bushido_man96]

If we use a cement floor and put people in gi, I think that Judo will have a major impact in MMA.

If we remove gloves, I think fighters will change the way they punch.

This may be the case. But do we really want to see? A street fight, or a competition where these guys can come away and compete again in 3 to 6 months?

For real. We could take away the Dog Brothers' headgear and kempo gloves and replace their sissy shock knives with butcher knives, too. Everyone involved dies, but it's real.

Yep, good points. I was also thinking that Judo competitors don't compete on concrete, so why would MMAers need to compete on concrete to make Judo more viable in the UFC?

[brickshooter]

If we use a cement floor and put people in gi, I think that Judo will have a major impact in MMA.

If we remove gloves, I think fighters will change the way they punch.

This may be the case. But do we really want to see? A street fight, or a competition where these guys can come away and compete again in 3 to 6 months?

For real. We could take away the Dog Brothers' headgear and kempo gloves and replace their sissy shock knives with butcher knives, too. Everyone involved dies, but it's real.

Yep, good points. I was also thinking that Judo competitors don't compete on concrete, so why would MMAers need to compete on concrete to make Judo more viable in the UFC?

Judokas compete on mats because their rules dictate a win with a successful throw, which had it been on concrete would likely be a knockout.

If MMA stands for Mix Martial Arts, shouldn't the rules allow an even level playing field for all martial arts? IMO, MMA rules penalizes Judo.

Secondly, MMA markets itself as the closest thing to reality fighting. Well, to a Judoka, that's true only if people generally strip to their underwear before a fight.

And they agree only to fight on grass.

[bushido_man96]

I do think MMA is about as close you can get to real fighting without having a real fight, with friends to jump in and all that. BJJ used to be done with the gi on, but it has adapted to use without a gi. Perhaps Judokas who are serious about taking on MMA competition should look for ways to do the same.

[MasterPain]

Judokas compete on mats because their rules dictate a win with a successful throw, which had it been on concrete would likely be a knockout.

If MMA stands for Mix Martial Arts, shouldn't the rules allow an even level playing field for all martial arts? IMO, MMA rules penalizes Judo.

Secondly, MMA markets itself as the closest thing to reality fighting. Well, to a Judoka, that's true only if people generally strip to their underwear before a fight.

And they agree only to fight on grass.

While I would like to see the gi allowed, geet get caught and ankles get twisted. The rules do play against Judo in the fact that being slammed on a mat doesn't hurt much, but a hard surface would result in serious injury on a regular basis. Upkicks and downkicks have also been banned because they are too dangerous. Biting, eye-gouging and groin kicks are all banned because they can cause permanent damage, which penalizes everyone from my school. Knees to the head on the ground are illegal because they make people dumber.

The rules do hurt the use of some arts. You don't see many Escrima people in the UFC, and TKD would be much more relevant if everyone wore combat boots. But the rules are there for safety. No one in thier right mind wants to fight on the Mortal Kombat Pit stage.

By the way, I do strip down to my underwear before a fight, while yelling PANCAKES!!!!!

[kansascityshuffle]

*sigh*

How hard do you think biting and eye gouging is? You're fooling yourself if you don't think most if not all of pro MMA fighters could also use the same tactics.

The fact is the ones making a living from this are training full time with excellent conditioning, working pads, doing bag work, and full contact sparring.

There have been MMA promotions that have allowed the dogi and the UFC used to (Royce Gracie in the earlier ones, anybody).

Karate can work but one style alone won't work in MMA, just the way it is. Adapt or die.

My original statement about eye gouging and biting not being hard to do..neck cranks aren't hard to do and most people don't do them full force when they grapple but they can pull it off in competition.

I seriously doubt most if any of you have much experience eye gouging and biting, too. If you do, you've been very lucky not to get arrested, have some dumb sparring partners to put up with it or are lying. No room for debate here. People that fight MMA, do BJJ tournaments, Judo tournaments, Knockdown karate tournaments, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, etc. get EXPERIENCE fighting against non compliant opponents but those of you focusing on eye gouging and biting are "dancing" with people that are dancing with you.

[MasterPain]

My original statement about eye gouging and biting not being hard to do..neck cranks aren't hard to do and most people don't do them full force when they grapple but they can pull it off in competition.

I don't see why everyone seems to think training a technique or concept requires using it with fuul force and intent to do grave bodily harm. Neck cranks are hard to do properly. To be able to use one effectively requires a person to train using them, but not at full force. Sparring done at 100 percent all the time would result in too many injuries to train effectively. I have never put out a training partners eye, that would be stupid, but if I can place my hand on their cheek, they know the eye poke is available and need to move accordingly. An eye gouge is not hard to do, you are right, but defending against it can be. So simulating it is good for your training partners combative skills. A light kick in the cup is not dancing, it's letting you know it's there. We don't base everything we do around the dirty stuff, but we also don't treat it as not being there. The rules for MMA are there to protect people or the rules would not be needed. Therefore for a complete combative system it would be logical to train the illegal stuff as well, in a safe and controlled manner. We do all the standard MMA stuff as well, or I should say mostly. In a real situation a person will fight they way they train. A law enforcement officer does not shoot their training partner, because they would die. But to say I'd just shoot the guy without actually practicing drawing the sidearm in the midst of a live fight simulation and expect to be able to do so in reality is the height of folly. We do have fighters who compete and do fairly well, however our main goal is survival.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I don't think the point was that it needs to be trained full force. It's more that biting and eye gouging is so easy that anyone can do it. There's no real reason to train it, because it's so easy and undeniably effective. It just isn't the best solution in every situation.

We've all seen it in the movies where a guy gets put in an arm bar and then bites the person applying it so they let go. I'm guessing, if a guy has you in an arm bar, and you bite him, he'll probably use that leg to give you a swift kick to the face so you don't do that again, and break your arm at the same time.

Using biting, groin strikes, and eye gouging to get out of a grapple just isn't a good idea. If you do it to them, they can certainly do it to you, AND they're in a superior position. If it were a sport competition, they would just crank the submission harder. If it is a self defense situation, they're already breaking whatever they're holding.

It is not that those things don't work, but more the fact that for most situations there are much better options that can be trained full force.

[tallgeese]

I will say; however, that if eye gouges and such are part of your response options, then saying that You'll just using them without training them is counter-intuitive when we look at how response patterns are built.

Under duress, the body starts to lose it's ability to conduct fine motor functions and vision might be impared. This can result in a loss of depth perception and an inabimity to do things that might otherwise be considered "easy".

Research has shown; however, that it's training with repetition that helps us overcome these changes and gies us skill sets that are functional beyond the typical heartbeat threshold associated with them (see Sharpening the Warrior's Edge for a much better expainatino than I can give).

So, if you're going to use a weapon, research says you need to train to use it. So assuming that just beause it's easy to say, and hit the eyes while comfortably hanging out with training buddies or drinking a beer is a far cry from doing it when it counts. To do this, you need to train it.

Mentally, this also prepares you to use it. It helps you accept what you're about to do. Dealing with those ramifications before hand is vital to it's successful deployment.

That said, I will agree that striking from a position of disadvantage on the ground is rarely a good idea. Your strikes are less effective and possibly open you up for further damage.

But, this doesn't change the fact that if those skills are in your tool bag, you should practice them effectively.