more Karate in the UFC

[isshinryu5toforever]

As a Karateka and UFC fan.. short answer yes. More Karatekas in UFC would be cool.

I think the glaring difference between a UFC event and a no rules street fight is kicks to the head and spine of a downed opponent. In a real fight when one combatant loses balance, it's over. The standing fighter will instinctively attack with devestating stomps or snap kicks. If it wasn't for this one rule UFC fights would have different outcomes and would be much shorter.

In a UFC event, a good stand up fighter will have no motivation to trip or throw an opponent who may be a better wrestler, bjj, or joint manipulator. Because his only choice is to grapple, he doesn't even try. He may lose this fight because he is taken down and submitted in a later round. That same fighter might have beaten that same opponent in a streetfight by sweeping, tripping, or throwing him early in the fight and thrashing him with kicks.

That's highly doubtful. Just because you trip or sweep someone, that doesn't mean they're wide open to a barrage of strikes. Most of the time you would have the opportunity to stomp on someone's head or back when they're on the ground is when you have gained a superior position because of your grappling skills. Not because you swept them and they fell. By putting someone who is skilled at ground fighting, on the ground, you are giving them an advantage whether it's inside or outside a ring. Besides if the other person is a clearly better thrower, then how would a striker cleanly throw them anyways?

[kamahlthedruid]

Chuck Liddel's kenpo is mainly kickboxing, wrestling, jujitsu, and very few kajukenbo moves like hammer fist. The Pitt's Hawaiian Kenpo doesn't teach forms because it's basically sport mma. Conditioning at The Pitt involves hardcore cross fit exercises.

[rmurray]

I respectfully disagree Sir. I insist that for all of time, in parking lots the world over; Maintaining posture while getting your opponent off his feet yields a very high percentage of wins.

There are positively hundreds of UFC fights that never would have gone to round two if not for the UFC rule about kicking/stomping a downed opponents head and spine. The absence of that rule would change the game completely.

I'm not for a rule change. I'm just saying that rule is the biggest difference between UFC and survival.

[brickshooter]

I agree with RMurray.

Pride allowed "kicks" to the head of ground fighters and attacks (knees) to the top of the head. Consequently, ground fighter were extremely careful in their takedowns. And they were reluctant about being on the ground in general. Even the legendary Gracies learned how to fight standing up in order to survive. It was extremely dangerous to be on the ground versus a seasoned fighter.

The UFC bans of these head kicks versus ground fighters and top of the head attacks changed the way fighters fought. Even if one gets caught in a spraw defense, there's no danger of getting repetitive knees on the cranium. And without head kicks versus a ground fighter, an attacker must try to punch a ground fighter with his shorter and weaker limb - his arms. If he misses, he's now on the ground with a grappler.

The UFC rules protecting ground fighters compelled MMA fighters to focus more on ground fighting.

The safety rules definitely shape the fighters.

[rmurray]

Now that I think about it, a rule change wouldn't be that bad. UFC matches would be more representative of real fighting. Just like the street, you would rarely ever see a fight go fifteen minutes. Going to decision would be rare. The UFC standings would be different. St. Pierres and Penn would not be household names.

[Patrick]

Hello,

Thank you for visiting KarateForums.com. Unfortunately, we removed a post from this thread in error. It is quoted below and was in response to kamahlthedruid's post above. I apologize for the confusion.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Sincerely,

Patrick

What does that have to do with the discussion being had or even the OP?

[Patrick]

isshinryu5toforever,

I believe that kamahlthedruid was just responding to quinteros1963's post on the previous page, mentioning Liddell. No worries.

Thanks,

Patrick

[isshinryu5toforever]

I agree with RMurray.

Pride allowed "kicks" to the head of ground fighters and attacks (knees) to the top of the head. Consequently, ground fighter were extremely careful in their takedowns. And they were reluctant about being on the ground in general. Even the legendary Gracies learned how to fight standing up in order to survive. It was extremely dangerous to be on the ground versus a seasoned fighter.

The UFC bans of these head kicks versus ground fighters and top of the head attacks changed the way fighters fought. Even if one gets caught in a spraw defense, there's no danger of getting repetitive knees on the cranium. And without head kicks versus a ground fighter, an attacker must try to punch a ground fighter with his shorter and weaker limb - his arms. If he misses, he's now on the ground with a grappler.

The UFC rules protecting ground fighters compelled MMA fighters to focus more on ground fighting.

The safety rules definitely shape the fighters.

I still saw an awful lot of takedowns and ground fighting in Pride. Head stomps are dangerous, but Fedor was pretty much the only guy to win using them on a consistent basis. If you're fighting Fedor, well you're likely to end up on the ground one way or another. For the majority of fights however, people weren't afraid to take it to the ground.

If head stomps were allowed, you wouldn't see people turtling or just laying there on their backs. You would still see a lot of takedowns and ground fighting though.

You also glossed over the part where I asked, how a striker would get a superior grappler to the ground? You mentioned sweeps and trips, but how exactly do you pull those off against someone much better at them than yourself?

[rmurray]

The obvious example might be to knock someone down with a strike.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Striking knockdowns are different from takedowns. If you knock someone down striking, a head stomp usually isn't necessary. Most of the time they are far enough out of it that you can finish them with punches, which is what usually happens. Sometimes, they're out cold by the time they hit the ground. There aren't many times when a head stomp would be infinitely more useful. Not to say it doesn't happen.

BUT, you mentioned takedowns, that's what I asked about. Obviously you can knock someone down, but it's something a less skilled striker can still do against a more skilled striker with some luck and patience. It is harder for a less skilled grappler to take down a more skilled grappler because of the mechanics involved.

How can you take down (using a sweep or trip to be specific, because that's the example you used earlier) a more skilled grappler and maintain your posture to be able to stomp on his head?