more Karate in the UFC

[Pajarito21]

I I'm a true lover of MMA and the UFC mainly for bringing the UFC into popularity. But, I don't mind seeing karate in the sport but if it is Karate that they are going to use then I want to see the karateka people use more ground game too.

[bushido_man96]

Well, ground game is going to be a given in most UFC fights; its just the nature of the beast.

[bushido_man96]

...There are many other great martial arts than these which are used in MMA but mostly they are not allowed. Because they may focus on killing your opponent. In UFC you do not want to see these guys killing. Hitting each other e.g. in the throat or any other surface that can really hurt.

Which styles would these be? I don't think it ends up being about "killing" moves, but more about the willingness to train to fight in the ring.

You maybe say "But they throttle on the floor!". Yes they do, but they don't do it in the middle of the throat where Adam's apple is but on the sides where veins are. In BJJ they just stop the flow of the blood to the brain and this is not as dangerous as hitting one's Adam apple.

If one could apply that hold to the throat on the Adam's apple, then it would take much to adjust it to get the sides of the throat, for a choke. As for striking the throat, its a pretty small target, and most good fighters are going to have their chin tucked and their hands up to protect their head.

On one side MMA is a good martial art, but on the other side it is a sport and they may be not that effective as other real fighting styles.

MMA is a real fighting style, and one of the things that makes it so effective is that the practitioners actually practice fighting, a lot.

[MMA_Jim]

Critics, who do not practice karate will always find a way to criticize karate. I have a friend who trains MMA and he very often says "Muay Thai, boxing and BJJ is the best, this is proven in MMA". I avoid these discussions because they are meaningless.

Even when I say to my friend "karate is used by Bas Rutten and Lyota Machida" he will find an excuse that it is not karate they are training. His reply mostly is "Yes, but they train a special style and it is not karate". Funny...

I dont find such discussions to be meaningless- the fact is some styles are simply better at some things that other styles. Everyone says its "the fighter not that style." So if thats true than a professional boxer should be just as adept at swordfighting as a kendo artist....

Anyways, Bas Rutten did and still does Muay Thai of his own accord. Machida can call what he does Karate, and we argued this for a long time on this forum before. Lets just settle and say that even he said that his style of karate is different than ever other style of karate out there, so apparently the only thing they share in common is the namesake.

Lyota Machida is a good example of that karate can be used in MMA. But I believe the biggest asset you can have is your own mind and not the style.

Of course Karate can be used, many karate fighters do indeed fight mixed martial arts. Mixed martial arts is simply a ruleset- not a set of techniques or a style of fighting. Hell, Bob Sapp labeled his fighting styles as "NFL." Your mind IS your biggest asset, but no one KNOWS how to fight, but rather they must be taught. How well they're taught is heavily influenced by their instructor. The quality of their instructor is often influenced by that instructors primary style.

There are many other great martial arts than these which are used in MMA but mostly they are not allowed. Because they may focus on killing your opponent.

Unless you're talking about kendo, phillipino knife fighting, or quick draw, any and all styles of fighting are allowed in MMA. There are no style restrictions.

Virtually all styles of martial arts strive to do one thing- beat your opponent. Thats really all that matters. Killing your opponent is the option you have after you've beaten him. A boxer that knocks you out has the option of killing you when you lie on the ground unconcious unable to defend yourself. A jiu jitsu fighter can simply not let go of the choke that made you lose conciousness. You get the idea

In UFC you do not want to see these guys killing. Hitting each other e.g. in the throat or any other surface that can really hurt.

On any surface that can hurt? Do you have any idea how painfull it is to be on the receiving end of some of these techniques? Besides, strikes to the throat are legal in Japan- we've yet to see a maimed fighter as a result. Mostly because all one has to do is tuck their chin, something that people are taught to do in their first boxing class.

You maybe say "But they throttle on the floor!". Yes they do, but they don't do it in the middle of the throat where Adam's apple is but on the sides where veins are. In BJJ they just stop the flow of the blood to the brain and this is not as dangerous as hitting one's Adam apple.

Dangerous in the sense you used the word simply refers to how much control one has over the technique. Yes, a throat strike is "dangerous" and a choke not so much.

Perhaps what you meant to say was "lethality" in which case a continued choke causes death 100% of the time. A throat strike can have no effect, can kill, can maim, or can simply be a nuisance. In this regard, a choke is significantly more lethal.

On one side MMA is a good martial art, but on the other side it is a sport and they may be not that effective as other real fighting styles.

And when I go back to your question, more karatekas in UFC would be nice. But I don't care too much because I don't watch UFC.

Hey, everyones entitled to their opinion and you're absolutely right- there may be some wild style out there we havent seen that will wreck havoc on a regular cage fighter...

As it stands, however, the facts remain:

The styles regularly showcased in mixed martial arts have proven themselves to be the most effective ways of fighting in their respective specialities (striking and grappling)period.

[RyanG]

not only would i like to see more karate but also some flying knees to the face like jose aldo!!!! that was the best quick ending fight i've ever seen. and if any of you guys have played the ufc undisputed 2009 video game at the beginning of the career the owner of ufc says you dont get in by having karate trophies. haha WHAT ABOUT LYOTO MACHIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE KICKS BUTT IN EVERY SINGLE FIGHT!!! haha i think its hilarious that the guy said that in a video game for all of the world to hear and then go watch machida's fights

[gavn8r]

I love MMA and the UFC, but I guess I think of karate as something more than just a fight. So it doesn't bother me when critics say that karate doesn't belong in MMA.

In my opinion, MMA isn't a real proving ground for martial arts. Think about it, you've got two guys who have trained a lifetime to hit, and more importantly, take a hit. So it seems like the fight never boils down to fighting style. I just boild down to man vs. man.

[bushido_man96]

And in the end, that is what a fight is about.

[Toptomcat]

Martial arts may be about more than fighting, but if they don't include fighting as a hugely important part of what they teach then they're just a bizzare combination of modern dance and amateur philosophy.

Martial arts are methodologies about how to train for a lifetime to fight. Why would the mere fact that UFC fighters train a lot to hit and take a hit make it impossible for it to be a test of fighting styles?

[lspahn]

Well...UFC/MMA guys get a lot of "ring time" to build timing, strength and make them flat out tough as nails. This is undeniable.

I think the issue is rules. UFC fights have rules...not striking here, or there. No poking here, etc. Then those guys train within those rules assuming others will also obey the rules of the sport. How many exchanges have we seen that stumble cause someone takes a finger to the eye or nice kick to the groin...and the ref puts a stop and gives him a minute.If it was a real fight and i got a finger in your eye (or nice kick to the groin), that would probably be it, You would get no time to recover, get up, see if your not blind. All that would have to wait till you woke up after a flurry of punches..

I think comparing combat sports to martial arts is always going to be problematic because goals are so different.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I don't buy the eye gouges and groin strikes argument. Those are mostly about bad luck or bad aim in the ring. Yes, they happen in street fights, but guess what, if you can do it to them, they can do it to you. I'm betting in a life or death situation, they would do it to you too. I'm not going to argue about the best striking styles on the planet. It's all about the fighter, period.

Also, the best techniques of traditional martial arts being "killing" techniques, is bogus. No style can be truly effective in teaching its students to defend themselves, if they can't actually try out what they learn. Techniques attempted against zero resistance are really just untested techniques. It's used as an excuse to avoid embarrassment a lot of times. I don't do MMA, but I have done bare knuckle competitions. You can say that Kyokushin fighters (the most famous, but not only bare knuckle competitors) are limited by their rules (no punching to the face), but I doubt anyone in the traditional martial arts community would argue about their ability to win fights real or sport.

I don't know why we feel the need to defend traditional martial arts by knocking down MMA. It's true that you'll see a young MMA or BJJ guy spouting off about how TMAs have no real value, but that's the exception not the rule, and usually an older, wiser practitioner will tell him to reevaluate what he's saying and be quiet for the time being. In more or less polite terms than that.