High kicks in karate

[dantankun]

Oss!

It depends on what you mean by "always a part of karate". I know that mageri was always in karate while mawashi-geri is only 100 years old. It is hard to find out today if high kicks were always in karate. This martial arts have existed in around 500 years now.

If you cannot do a head kick it does not matter so much. Not too long ago a sensei from another karate club came to our club to train together with us and exchange experiences. I talked a little bit with him about techniques and he said that you don't have to make a head kick in order to defeat your opponent. It is enough to kick him in his leg or knee. That way you make HIM go down to your level

But yes I agree that such research is interesting. I was always interested in history.

There are different ways to theorise it here are some:

1. Southerners in China including Okinawans tend to be shorter people average height of men were between 5’5 to 5’8 mostly 5’5 compare to Northerners who tend to be between 5’8 -6 feet plus. That is why Southern and Okinawa martial arts involve less high kicks.

2. When karate was develop it was base on actual field fighting, fighting against bandits, invaders it was more about battle field fighting. That is why high kicks makes no sense in a battlefield.

3. It is easier and quicker to develop the hands then to develop high kicks for fighting since humans uses their hands more naturally in fighting than using high kicks.

Look at wing chun, their concept is no high kicks?

[tallgeese]

I'd say that they are definatly a more modern invention for the arts. Most of the older forms you see definatly keep the feet on the ground, or at least close to it.

Remember too, that several of the arts grew out of the military of the time. Hence, most of the manuvers needed to be done with armor on. This makes anything high with the legs pretty difficult.

[dantankun]

Most people or students are impress with high kicks and their impression on karate is high kicks too. In fact, students are less impress with siensi who can not perform high kicks and are more impress with those who can.

Even in martial arts tournaments I notice that judges tend to give better scores for those who execute high kicks and fail to understand those who execute powerful, balance and focus punching and hand movements.

This go back to viewing the forms of karate, wing chun, ngo cho, hung gar and white crane from sam chien to the highest forms mostly no high kicks their highest kick goes to rib cage area.

I guess, for students who feel they are not flexible enough to perform or execute high kicks should not worry or be envious of those who can remember karate means empty hands or the empty hand way.

[Toptomcat]

If your martial art is a powerful and functional one, but you have trouble because you're judged on aesthetic principles rather than merit, the answer to that is to compete in a venue that allows you to achieve victory by knockout rather than relying on a judge's decision.

[Fish]

My guess is that (as others have said) the emphasis on high kicking began to develop as Karate and other arts became used as sports. The difficulty and aesthetic appeal of kicking to head height probably has something to do with it. The aesthetic appeal was no doubt reinforced when the MA became the subject of numerous movies, where high and complex kicks are emphasised to great effect.

It seems to me that karate and other ma now contain a number of kicks that would not be easy to execute or terribly functional in a real fight, and are there for sporting purposes only. For example, in my art, ura-mawashigeri to head height strikes me as eminently impractical in a real fight: the relative weakness of the kick combined with the difficulty of execution and the sacrificial compromise of balance and stability make it a poor choice in a self defence situation, imho.

This emphasis on aesthetics and complexity over functionality in the sports arena has been taken to an extreme in Olympic TKD, for example, where points are only scored for kicks, so the protagonists keep their arms down, don't punch, and attempt to score using highly complex kicks that would have no or limited practical application, whereas TKD is in reality (as I understand it), a functional ma with a full range of effective punching and kicking techniques etc. The same evolution can be seen in boxing, which originally contained grapples and takedowns, but which has abandoned them in favour of a smaller range of point-scoring or ko techniques.

[joesteph]

Most people or students are impress with high kicks and their impression on karate is high kicks too. In fact, students are less impress with siensi who can not perform high kicks and are more impress with those who can.

I feel it's expected to be able to perform high kicks, whether to the head or a jump kick for altitude (instead of covering distance), if you're in a Korean martial art. If you reach a certain level in belt rank, and it could be at a gup level, such as 3rd (start of red belt), not necessarily chodan, I believe you will be compared with others in your Korean art much more stringently than if at a lower belt.

This comparison can be done by you personally, not just by others who observe, and you have to ask yourself what it means to you in terms of how proficient you feel in the high-kicking art you're studying.

[DWx]

Most people or students are impress with high kicks and their impression on karate is high kicks too. In fact, students are less impress with siensi who can not perform high kicks and are more impress with those who can.

I feel it's expected to be able to perform high kicks, whether to the head or a jump kick for altitude (instead of covering distance), if you're in a Korean martial art. If you reach a certain level in belt rank, and it could be at a gup level, such as 3rd (start of red belt), not necessarily chodan, I believe you will be compared with others in your Korean art much more stringently than if at a lower belt.

This comparison can be done by you personally, not just by others who observe, and you have to ask yourself what it means to you in terms of how proficient you feel in the high-kicking art you're studying.

Maybe, maybe not. I've never been able to do side kicks above shoulder level and even then thats after a really good warm up... Can't really jump either. Its not so much of a problem though. Of course they'd like you to be able to do it and naturally the people who can will have a lot more open to them but I don't think it is crucial. Of course it'll depend on teachers and styles about how much the high kicks are stressed.

In some ways I think this idea that Korean style = high kicking actually puts people off learning TKD and other Korean styles because they assume that they will have to kick high when really there are plenty of alternatives and its not so much about high all the time.

[simonw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj5WaCXQ8i8

I feel through my experience many kicks where body hight and lower, in the forfather arts of karate Te & Chinese Arts there are some art with higher kicks but i feel manly down to the development of karate in England and europe practicitioners with greater flexibile cxan achieve higher kicks but styles like wing chun keep there kicks low and the body and hips can project a balanced force down.

[brickshooter]

IMO, Karate brought in high kicks from TKD, which actually evolved from Karate. Yes, this is a bit like the question of whether the egg came before the chicken.

Anyways, in the West we prize innovation. In the East they prize perfection. They could care less on who invented it and have zero issues at bringing in techniques from other styles.

[Mike Flanagan]

I suspect brickshooter is right. Certainly in my time training (from the mid 1970's) I've seen Karate being influenced by Taekwondo.

When I started in Wado Ryu there were only 4 kicks:

front

side

round

back

No ushiro-mawashigeri etc.

Side kick was perfected at knee height before moving on. The other kicks were primarily practiced in chudan.

Things in Wado are very different now, as with other Karate styles. Its clear to me that (in the UK at least) this is a direct result of karateka seeing people from other arts (eg. Taekwondo) do sexy flambouyant kicks and thinking 'I have to get a piece of that action'.

Going further back I don't think there's really much doubt - kicking above the waist was the exception rather than the norm in Okinawan Shorin Ryu. Every style of Shorin that exists now and hasn't jumped on the competition bandwagon reflects this method of training.

Mike