High kicks in karate

[dantankun]

I have been trying to understand if high kicks has always been part of karate? or was it later added after exposure to other martial arts that concentrate on high kicks?

I ask because I notice that many old katas that I have seen on videos don't have high kicks. Kicks seem to be concentrated mostly waist down?

[Toptomcat]

This sort of thing is always kind of difficult to track down precisely. My best guess for the historical introduction of the large and developed body of high kicks to karate that it currently boasts is in the transition from Okinawa to Japan and the decades following it, from 1900 to the Second World War. Gigo Funakoshi, Gichin's third son, seems to have had a large role in this particular technical development.

[dantankun]

IMO I think high kicks were never originally part of karate including other southern Chinese kung fu such as wing chun, ngo cho kun or white crane.

Kicks for those styles were mostly for attacking lower body from the rib cage area down. The principle and practicality seem to be base on " the closest distant between two angle is a straight line" the hands is closest to the upper body while the feet are closest to the lower body.

The role of the feet would probably be:

1. to keep the entire body balance by being firmly rooted to the ground

2. use for tripping and sweeping, attacking low

3. kicks to the stomach or below stomach such as groin area with front kicks

3. round house kicks were mostly targetting the rib cage, thigh and knee area same with side kicks

4. in step kicks to the knees

5. keeping your opponent or attackers off balance

6. Knees are use also to attack the lower body

While the feet is attacking the lower body the hands are simulteneously creating a diversion or attacking the upper body such as the head, throat and chest ( sternum area ).

Most of this southern styles including karate have concentrated a lot in strengthening the forearm and shin. The forearm not only is it use for blocking but is also use also for injuring an attacking arm or leg while blocking.

One of the main natural instinct of a person train or untrain is the natural ability to use their arms to protect themsleves or attack others. That is why great emphasis is put on developing the arms.

Base on the traditional forms that I notice in karate, ngo cho, white crane, hung gar, choy li fut or wing chun there is hardly any high kicks? Unlike in northern styles including Korean martial arts they have forms that consist of high kicks.

I guess in some degree it is logically because in street fights especially in group fights I notice it has always been the use of the fist, low kicks, stand up ju jit su, the feet are always on the ground moving or running around.

I also notice that in many modern sports free style competition such as in MMA or san shou most fighters tend to avoid the use of high kicks because of the high chance of getting taken down or lossing their balance.

I wonder is there any historical writtings about high kicks in karate??

So far I have not been successful in finding any writtings about this.

I myself train in ngo cho for many years and I have always wonder about high kicks.

[Toptomcat]

This biography of Gigo Funakoshi over at a Shotokai Web site credits him with developing many of the kicks now regarded as fundamental to karate. I don't know how accurate or reliable it is, but it certainly is an interesting start.

Ngo Cho...you mean Five Ancestors? That's an interesting system. Glad to have you onboard.

[dantankun]

This biography of Gigo Funakoshi over at a Shotokai Web site credits him with developing many of the kicks now regarded as fundamental to karate. I don't know how accurate or reliable it is, but it certainly is an interesting start.

Ngo Cho...you mean Five Ancestors? That's an interesting system. Glad to have you onboard.

Thanks for the link. Yes. ngo cho kun as five ancestors fist.

If I or someone like me would train 100% purely traditional karate or in my case ngo cho it won't have any high kicks. It would be something like a combination of a boxer, with a little bit of judo and ju jit su and uniquely low kicks.

That is why in our forms including karate forms kicks are mostly front kicks and side kicks not above chest level.

[Toptomcat]

'100% traditional'? Whose traditions? Those of your teacher? Your teacher's teacher? The founder of a particular karate substyle? The 20s-30s pioneers of karate- Motobu Chōki, Chōjun Miyagi, Gichin Funakoshi and the like? The traditions of the Naha-te, Shuri-te, or Tomari-te? Those of the Fujian White Crane systems that influenced them? Those of the Shaolin monks who are said to have originated Fujian white crane? Those of Bodhidharma, who is said to have originated the martial traditions of the monks?

Thinking that way isn't very productive- it's turtles all the way down. Far better to think of what makes a martial art effective, and why.

Your way of fighting may very well be a worthwhile one, and very close to how the original Okinawan martial arts looked, but neither of those two things necessarily follows from the other.

[joesteph]

This biography of Gigo Funakoshi over at a Shotokai Web site credits him with developing many of the kicks now regarded as fundamental to karate. I don't know how accurate or reliable it is, but it certainly is an interesting start.

If I or someone like me would train 100% purely traditional karate or in my case ngo cho it won't have any high kicks. It would be something like a combination of a boxer, with a little bit of judo and ju jit su and uniquely low kicks.

In the new art I'm studying, which has Japanese roots, Muay Thai kicks are brought in, with low practice kicks on the heavy bag as though to the opponent's legs. Since we wear gear when we spar, these leg kicks are permitted. There are instructors and students who have some TKD background, and though there's no pressure to kick high, you can tell which students have it in their background when they spar. It tends to show up if they toss in a roundhouse that's to the head instead of to the ribs.

[Jay]

If I remember my history correctly I think TopTomCat is pretty close to what I would have said.

It came about because of sport fighting. Im almost sure that originally particularily shotokan all kicks were kept low on the whole.

[jsteczko]

Oss!

It depends on what you mean by "always a part of karate". I know that mageri was always in karate while mawashi-geri is only 100 years old. It is hard to find out today if high kicks were always in karate. This martial arts have existed in around 500 years now.

If you cannot do a head kick it does not matter so much. Not too long ago a sensei from another karate club came to our club to train together with us and exchange experiences. I talked a little bit with him about techniques and he said that you don't have to make a head kick in order to defeat your opponent. It is enough to kick him in his leg or knee. That way you make HIM go down to your level

But yes I agree that such research is interesting. I was always interested in history.

[dantankun]

'100% traditional'? Whose traditions? Those of your teacher? Your teacher's teacher? The founder of a particular karate substyle? The 20s-30s pioneers of karate- Motobu Chōki, Chōjun Miyagi, Gichin Funakoshi and the like? The traditions of the Naha-te, Shuri-te, or Tomari-te? Those of the Fujian White Crane systems that influenced them? Those of the Shaolin monks who are said to have originated Fujian white crane? Those of Bodhidharma, who is said to have originated the martial traditions of the monks?

Thinking that way isn't very productive- it's turtles all the way down. Far better to think of what makes a martial art effective, and why.

Your way of fighting may very well be a worthwhile one, and very close to how the original Okinawan martial arts looked, but neither of those two things necessarily follows from the other.

I guess each style will go by their original founders.

High kicks have become part of almost all striking martial arts in training and sparring but not in their forms, I notice that forms have at least remain the same.