A Lotta Lotta Kata

[still kicking]

It is well known that Shito Ryu has a lot of kata, I guess because Mabuni was really into them. I love kata, and I doubt that anyone who didn’t care for them or see their value would train in a Shito-ryu school. Maybe some people will think that this kind of training is ridiculous and pointless, but I thought I would tell you the kata we require for ranking. FWIW, we also spend a lot of time on basics, and are tested on standing basics, moving basics, one step sparring, and free sparring, (depending on rank), but this is just to address kata requirements.

10th kyu ho (yellow belt) – no kata required (basics only)

10th kyu (orange belt) – Kihon kata ichi

9th Kyu (1st blue belt) Pinan Shodan

8th Kyu (2nd blue belt) Pinan Sandan + 1 intermediate kata*

7th Kyu (1st purple belt) Pinan Nidan + 1 new intermediate kata

6th Kyu (2nd purple belt) Pinan Yondan + 1 new intermediate kata

5th Kyu (1st green belt) Pinan Godan + 1 new intermediate kata

4th Kyu – Sensei’s Choice Pinan + 1 intermediate kata**

3rd Kyu (1st brown belt) Two intermediate kata

2nd Kyu (2nd brown belt) Two intermediate kata

1st Kyu (3rd brown belt) Two intermediate/advanced kata

Shodan-ho (provisional black belt) 5 Kihon, 5 Pinan, and 3 Naihanchin kata

Plus two advanced kata

Shodan (1st black belt) 5 Kihon, 5 Pinan, and 3 Naihanchin kata

Plus two new advanced kata

*From 8th kyu through 5th kyu you test on the required pinan plus 4 different intermediate kata.

** Starting with 4th kyu you can re-test on the first 4, but from here on out you have to use new kata.

The main intermediate kata are – Kensei dai, Matsukaze, Aoyanagi, Jyuroku, Rohai Shodan, Jiin, Jitte. We can choose which ones we want to test on.

The most popularly used advanced kata used for testing, from 1st kyu through shodan, are Annanko, Bassai dai, Seipai, Seinchin, Rohai nidan, and Jion. Sometimes people use Nipaipo or Annanko henka (variation).

There are also a boatload of other advanced kata we practice but are not tested on. By shodan we are expected to know all of the above, plus Matsukaze henka, Bassai Syo, Tomari Bassai, Rohai Sandan, and Kosokun Dai. Advanced students also practice Nipaipo, Matsamura ha Bassai, Anan, Ennpi, whatever, a whole lot of kata.

We are also tested on kobudo (weapons) kata, and have to have earned shodan in kobudo before being awarded shodan ho (provisional black belt) in karate do. These are the kobudo kata requirements.

10th kyu – Bo no kihon kata

9th kyu – Sai no kihon kata ichi and ni

8th kyu – Syushi no kon syo

7th kyu – Sai no kihon kata san and shi

6th kyu – Syushi no kon dai

5th kyu – Rohai no sai

4th kyu – Rohai no kon

3rd kyu – Tsukken shitahaku no sai

2nd kyu – Kaibo ten no kata

1st kyu – Kaibo jiin no kata

Shodan-ho – Kaibo chi no kata

Shodan -- Kobo

Sensei is very picky, and even if we are working hard on a weapons kata it is not uncommon to work on the same one for 9 months to a year, sometimes more!

We generally review just a few kata a week, just for memory, but are only deeply working a few at a time. Except for kihon, pinan, and naihanchin, which we work on regularly. It is nice to really go into one or two kata for a while, then work on others, then go back and rework the earlier ones and see what else you can get out of it. Then we spend about half of our time on basics, drills, applications, and sparring.

Anyway, hopefully this helps to explain why it can take 10 or more years to reach shodan in our school!

This has been a really long post, so I am not going to go into a big discussion about the relative merits or the lack thereof of such a system. It is definitely not that they are trying to keep people around for the money. For one thing we are a non-profit, and the teachers do not get paid. Also, people generally stay after reaching black belt (unless they are moving away for various life reasons) because they like the training and like the place. A heck of a lot of people do leave in the intermediate ranks, though, you can be sure of that!

You can berate this system if you want to, but I think it’s great training. Not to sound like a name dropper or anything, but my organization did manage to produce the likes of George Kotaka and Elisa Au, both of whom have multiple world championships in kumite, as well as many other great fighters. If you think it’s only point sparring, well, I think they would hold their own in a “real” fight as well!

But… maybe it is a few too many kata.

[TheKarateKid]

Eww yuck! that's too much for me! i hate kata but absolutly LOVE kumite. i'm absolutly lethal in kumite they pair me with black belts because i can keep up with themand to a certain extent once i've figured out a technique we do free sparring (( no other belt that is below purple is allowed)) but i keep up and hit hard enough. if shotokan style karatians know who shihan takahashi is ((which by the way you should)) i was personally told by him i would make an excellent fighter but because i'm crap at kata he won't let me skip a belt

[joesteph]

It is well known that Shito Ryu has a lot of kata, I guess because Mabuni was really into them. I love kata, and I doubt that anyone who didn’t care for them or see their value would train in a Shito-ryu school. Maybe some people will think that this kind of training is ridiculous and pointless, but I thought I would tell you the kata we require for ranking. FWIW, we also spend a lot of time on basics, and are tested on standing basics, moving basics, one step sparring, and free sparring, (depending on rank), but this is just to address kata requirements.

I don't think kata lacks value at all. I remember Sensei8 being involved in discussions about the merits of kata in another forum. (Bob, remember "kihon, kata, and kumite"? )

No one should neglect the basics, but I do have a question about class time and kata, Still Kicking. Is time taken in class for bunkai, so that these kata have at least some of their applications known, even practiced? I always profited from doing hyungs (kata) in Soo Bahk Do when I understood at least one application for a move or combo of moves. Much of the "mystery" of Tai Chi's solo form (Yang style, Cheng Man-Ching) was revealed when I did a two-man form with a skilled friend.

[barryives]

Wow, that is alot !

I'm a great fan of Kata. I'd always fancied cross training in Shito Ryu but the clubs seem few and far between

[Toptomcat]

Oof. Kata are a big part of karate- I train them and like it- but that kind of load would drive me crazy.

[Lupin1]

And I thought we had to learn a lot of kata. We've got one empty hand kata for the first two belts and then two for every belt after that until brown where you have to learn like four empty hand kata and a weapons kata. I can't imagine having to remember all the ones you have to do.

[still kicking]

joesteph wrote:

I do have a question about class time and kata, Still Kicking. Is time taken in class for bunkai, so that these kata have at least some of their applications known, even practiced?

We don't practice a lot of bunkai until the higher levels. Usually we are shown a few applications or interpretations while learning a kata, but only in passing. Then around 1st kyu we start practicing our bunkai routine for one kata we will be tested on in the black belts tests. Other than that, the main bunkai practice at the lower levels is being thrown around by the black belt candidate(s).

In a perfect world, we would have a few less kata, and spend more time on bunkai at the lower levels. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no influence on the subject.

[Blade96]

Eww yuck! that's too much for me! i hate kata but absolutly LOVE kumite. i'm absolutly lethal in kumite they pair me with black belts because i can keep up with themand to a certain extent once i've figured out a technique we do free sparring (( no other belt that is below purple is allowed)) but i keep up and hit hard enough. if shotokan style karatians know who shihan takahashi is ((which by the way you should)) i was personally told by him i would make an excellent fighter but because i'm crap at kata he won't let me skip a belt

I adora Kata, I find it a beautiful and artistic way to express myself and releases stress (of which i have a lot of) I dont think funakoshi was joking when he named our first 5 katas peaceful mind hehe good name.

I counted and this seems to have a bit more kata than we have! In ours we got 26 kata in all (including BB ones)

I'm starting to learn sparring Kumite now, I asked my Sandan friend to sparr with me and I got him in the solar plexus (ok more on the side) with a nice Mawashi geri and he's like laughing 'You're not getting away with that' and next time i did it he grabbed my leg and planted me on the floor so hard I took root He never did it again. Because I learned pretty fast to be able to snap back your leg quick enough after the mawashi geri to avoid having it trapped!

I'm really enjoying Kumite as well. My sensei and the BB's i like told me I have a good spirit and my kicks are good and hard! lol they also said I love to kick people and punch. and Sandan said 'I think you're dangerous now!' when I said i hope to get real good. I dont think he was kidding when he said that.

Tbh I'd be afraid to be paired with a yellow or white belt = Kumite. I might accidentally hurt them because I love it so much i sometimes get carried away and my blocks and kicks are so hard and fast.

[Jay]

Personally I don't find Kata useful anymore. I think because I did years of it.

Its not like I don't respect people that do it, I actually quite like it but doesn't fit my goals anymore. I prefer to drill things like punches and kicks.

I assume they are simiar to the shotokan kata's plus probably a few that I don't know.

[joesteph]

Personally I don't find Kata useful anymore. . . .

I actually quite like it but doesn't fit my goals anymore.

I believe you study Jeet Kune Do, don't you, Jay? It's very direct for fighting, a true "combative" martial art.

I brought my climb up the belt staircase to a halt, though I've always respected my teacher, to train at a dojo where my interview with Shihon has me working applications/techniques each class. There's a belt system, but I'm not concerned with it, meaning that the classes I've had so far immediately contained martial art applications.

I think knowledge-based training is beyond the belt system, and the belt system is so tied to kata that there are innumerable ones to perform in the different styles.

For those who enjoy kata/hyungs, that's great. We, each of us, should enjoy the martial arts we study. As for me, I'd rather learn a limited number of kata, even if it's limited to the pinan/heian series, and take them apart, rather than know a dozen (or more) but find I'm at a loss as to what's contained within.