Mantis Kung Fu

[Drunken Monkey]

yea, and all shoalin came from one man who travelled there from india.

 

i was not saying that wing chun is better.

 

what i was refereing to was the whole burning of temple, rebels, anti-hing etc etc.

 

at the time of the buring of the temple, the martial arts that had been taught to the ching military was the old (or classical) shaolin styles.

 

in order to defeat the soldiers and important officers, these people on the opera boats had to "create" (or adapt) their style. what they needed was a system that could be learnt quickly, practised on their boats and could be used in narrow, confined spaces (which was their prefered environment when attempting assassinations).

[pvwingchun]

All of Wing Chun history is clouded in mystery and legend. Even those who are known to exist, Cheung Ng for example, their contributions to the development are nothing more than any of the rest of it simply legend. Until around the time of Leung Jan little is truly known about the development of the art and even from that time forward the truth is not known, but there is a pretty good idea.

 

What is widely held to be believed at this point in time is that Wing Chun "was developed in the temple" during a time when the monks realized that the classical styles of Shaolin took to long to train in. They needed a style that was quick to learn, efficient and would work in the streets and alleys of the time, which were narrow, therefore the close in fighting style. They took what they considered the best of current styles and began to develope a system. Some of this shows in the similarity to other styles. It is also believed by some that the system was incomplete and refined at a later date. It is true that Wing Chun flourished on the Opera Boats which became a place that those in the rebellions and secret societies hid due to the nature of the operas and the hiding of martial systmes in the performances. And it is likely that Wing Chun footwork further developed at this time.

 

As for the temples there is some historical evidence that both the north and the south temple existed. Some claim the southern temple never existed and was simply a ploy to throw off a government searching for it. Although recent archeological digs claim to have found the site, which some claim is not the true temple.

 

As for Cheung Ng, also known as Tan Sao Ng, he is known to have existed but any ties to Wing Chun are speculative at best. But there are accounts that even he learned of a new style taught to him by monks who had developed a new style in the temple.

[paolung]

firstly we should probably apologize to loco for hijacking his thread

 

i think practically all cma history "is clouded in mystery and legend", as pvwingchun says.

 

every system has it's own legends about founding, but many of the southern styles were developed on the famous opera boats (which is one of the explanations why many southern systems tend to be more "shorthand" and the footwork is not as expansive).

 

one thing is fairly certain- wing chun probably was designed to be streamlined and fairly quick to learn and used.

 

i have heard people say "all forms of (chinese) martial arts evolve from shaolin" but i certainly don't agree with it. this completely discounts the emei and wudang systems, as well as shuai chiao (which most certainly predates the shaolin systems) and a few other more obscure systems which neither resemble nor owe their roots to shaolin systems.

 

however, i think it can be reasonably said that the majority of systems in china were either influenced by or directly descended from the shaolin systems.

[ahgao]

...but many of the southern styles were developed on the famous opera boats (which is one of the explanations why many southern systems tend to be more "shorthand" and the footwork is not as expansive).

Where the yangtze river cuts, the upper is northern art, and the lower is southern. The landscape of southern is full of mountains and rivers and large open fields rules the north.

 

Due to the constrain in the landscape, southern art have no choice but to be short bridge and dun run about or any high jumps moves.

[Drunken Monkey]

well i still don't believe that wing chun began in the temple.

 

for a start, it was burned because of suspicion from the emporer that it was a base for rebels.

 

this meant that it was deamed to be illegal.

 

i can't see how wing chun could be developed in shaolin when

 

a) it was destroyed

 

b) it was considered a hideout for criminals (i.e under some sort of observation)

 

the one(s) who betrayed the temple were desciples right up until the day the temple was burnt down. if wing chun was being developed at the time, surely he would've known about it.

[ahgao]

This is what i was told...

well i still don't believe that wing chun began in the temple.

It did started from the temple but was not fully created.

 

It was after the burndown of the temple than this NUN draft out the art and pass to Yip Weng Chun, which later complete the actual art together with her husband

[Drunken Monkey]

well, that's one of the inconstancies.

 

since when were there nuns at the shaolin temple?

 

if anything it is more likely to have a omei origin seeing the history of dispute that existed between the two heads of schools at the time before the burning and the rebel movement.

 

(but this might've been one of the myths, haven't checked it out yet)

[Tamojin]

Praying Mantis was invented by Wong Long who was a Taoist - not a monk. He came to test himself against the monks at Shaolin. After multiple defeats he invented Mantis and defeated the temple abbot. They then incorporated Mantis into the temple as the last style to learn after you have mastered the rest. As a Taoist he was allowed to leave and spread the art. I always thought wing chun was invented by a shaolin nun.

[Tamojin]

My Mantis training is very gruelling - its a tough system to take and be accepted into - they don't take everyone.

[Drunken Monkey]

we're lucky enough here to have a direct representative of yip chee keung here in the uk that teaches.

 

mantis was one of the styles i always wanted to learn. i intended to learn mantas after my wing chun but the way things are going, my training in wing chun is going to take longer than i originally thought...

 

but i am young. and it is never too late to learn.