Expulsion!

[tallgeese]

Here's a bit off topic tidbit speaking of common in one's experience. 20 years in and I'd never head the term senpai OR sempai before I started posting here.

[sensei8]

Here's a bit off topic tidbit speaking of common in one's experience. 20 years in and I'd never head the term senpai OR sempai before I started posting here.

Now that's funny! Show's what one can learn from KF, huh!?

[Blade96]

Here's a bit off topic tidbit speaking of common in one's experience. 20 years in and I'd never head the term senpai OR sempai before I started posting here.

Wow....that is different.

btw spelled senpai - prounounced sempai.

and that's how we spell it too. sempai....

[tallgeese]

Yeah, not so much on the traditional stuff where came out of.

[Blade96]

different how we spell words according to how they are pronounced rather than its correct spelling

sempai for senpai

oss for osu

Idk. maybe its just easier.

[JohnASE]

I don't think that political differences should ever have any business in any decisions of expulsions.

By "political differences", I meant regarding policy on how the organization should be run. Sometimes, these differences are irreconcilable.

Hypothetically, lets say the officers of a made-up organization, the Traditional Japanese Karate Group (TJKG), are in Japan, and they don't want control of the TJKG to shift overseas because foreigners aren't traditional enough. They might institute a new policy requiring officers to attend bi-monthly meetings or to visit each dojo in their assigned region at least once per year. This would make it hard for foreigners to be officers, especially in a country as spread out as the USA. The current officers might feel it's important to control the quality of their dan testing, so they might start to require two officers to be on any testing panel for ni-dan and above, and for yon-dan and above, you have to be tested in Japan.

Members from the TJKG USA might think this is outrageous and unreasonable. They might refuse to follow the new policies. Flying officers from Japan to the USA for dan testing is too expensive. Traveling around trying to annually visit each of the 200 dojos under the USA director is just insane! The USA director is loyal to his old sensei, the head of the TJKG, so he doesn't want to quit. The old sensei understands and doesn't kick out the USA director.

After some years, the old sensei passes away. The new people in power decide to enforce the rules and kick out the USA director, accusing him of awarding rank without authority, accepting testing fees that rightfully belong to the legitimate officers or the organization, and otherwise ignoring their directives.

The above example is fictitious, but I have heard of similar things happening for similar reasons, both recently and decades ago.

As another example, I don't have any first hand info, but a national organization is said to be in the midst of extreme political conflict. From what I hear, there are two main factions trying to gain control. There is said to be political and legal maneuvering. I don't know what their differences are. There have been accusations of misconduct. I've heard of people being removed from office, or maybe they were asked to step down. I don't remember if anyone has been kicked out of the organization or not. Things sound like they're getting pretty nasty. I don't like hearing about things like this in martial arts, but I suppose in any large group there are bound to be some differences of opinion and some conflict. I hope they can work things out, but I wouldn't be surprised if one group or the other were to break away.

[bushido_man96]

Here's a bit off topic tidbit speaking of common in one's experience. 20 years in and I'd never head the term senpai OR sempai before I started posting here.

I'm with you. I much prefer my native Americanized English to all this other.

At any rate, back to the topic at hand, I think that expulsions can be a tricky business, for sure. In your case, Bob, with well established by-laws, it makes it easier to cite such infractions and then have reprimands in place for them. Although not always necessary, it does make things easier to justify.

Now, when it comes to splits due to political or other differences, these are just a result of human nature...we just can't always get along. And although one of the driving forces behind the Oriental Martial Arts is the adherence and devotion to a high ranked instructor figure, the fact of the matter is that most of us outgrow that after some point in time. We want to break free, and be our own boss, follow our own road, and all that other stuff. Just because we learn a lot of things from somone doesn't prevent us from gaining our own points of view, and wanting to teach things from those points of view. I think that this is the reason behind so many different "styles" or organizations of Martial Arts today. And it will only continue to go this way.

That's my take on it, anyway.