Well I just got back from first tournament…

[GeoGiant]

Like the title says, I went to my first tournament today. My dojo doesn’t really participate in point sparring so I was unsure of what to expect. I arrived on time and registered. We were broken into groups and told the rules… contact areas, non-contact areas, when to stop & start, practice control, etc.

I was the first to fight which is not the scenario I wanted. I was hoping to see other people fight so I could get an idea of how the match was going to work. I line up, bow at all the wrong people at the all wrong times. I didn’t freak about it, surprisingly enough, I just tried to correct my mistakes as I made them. When I step to the line in the ring, I have 3 black belts to my left that are acting as the judges. The guy across from me (my opponent) was bouncing back and forth getting ready to fight. The center black belt says ready stance, I drop back, get my hands up around my head to protect. My opponent just keeps bouncing with his arms at his side. Well my opponent charges me and I step to side & he taps the front of my gi – point him. We line up again, exact same thing – point him. Now I’m facing 0 to 2 so I’m thinking I’ve got to do something… MOVE… so I said to myself, if he makes one step toward me I’m stepping to side and throwing a roundhouse kick to his ribs. My opponent does the same thing and as soon as his foot hits the mat, I hit him with a roundhouse – judge yells stop & I stop but never drop my hands until my opponent does. My opponent looks at the judges and mumbles something (I don’t know what he said because I was sizing up my next shot). A judge looks at me and yells CONTROL. We had 2 or 3 times where the judges couldn’t decide who hit who first. We tangled up once and apparently I hit him in the head – neck area but I have no idea where or with what… we were chest to chest and all tangled up. I got a warning for head contact and we go back to our lines. He starts bouncing again and then jumps toward me and I hit him in the chest – point me. Now its 2 to 2 and I’m feeling good. Well…. the judge says fight and we get tangled up. To tell the truth I don’t know what he was doing… I think he was trying some kind of front snap kick but he was too close… and for some reason that is when it happened… my eyes were focused on his leg but when I realized he couldn’t get a shot on me my vision expanded…. all of a sudden I could see his hands were at his sides and we are positioned a foot or two from each other….. without thinking I threw a right hook and hit him in the side of the forehead… not hard, more of a tap – the judges yelled at me told me to take my gi off because I was disqualified.

I knew it, I didn’t try to do it, but I did it. I’m walking back to where my stuff is and the lead judge follows me and says, “I wanted to make sure you got control of yourself”…. Hu??? It really didn’t register for a minute. A little later, the same judge calls me over, 4 of us line up, he points to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, then says disqualified to me. Then one by one, each judge gave me a tongue-lashing about how this is not a street fight, you can’t be that aggressive, I need to get control of myself and not let the adrenaline take over. After they were done I apologized. I leaned forward to the judge that disqualified me and said that my dojo doesn’t do point sparring and I told him that this was my first match and I that I never acted out of anger I was fighting like I do when I train. This judge apparently didn’t believe me and told me he was there to make sure people didn’t get hurt and he wouldn’t except me to fight a black belt like than!

I know this is a long story but I feel really shook up by the whole experience. Let me say first that the guy I spared against NEVER double over or buckled from my shots, he never rubbed anything like I hit too hard, he never looked like I hurt him. I’m a yellow belt and he was a purple belt, we were both about the same age and size. After I saw some of the higher belts spar I can see that I was fighting…. they were point sparing. They were throwing and pulling kicks and punches. I was trying to make contact, what I felt like was light contact, but contact all the same.

I hate the idea that someone thinks I was losing my cool and trying to attack another person. I’m 38 and I haven’t been a fist fight since I was in middle school. Now I see that I should have learned more about what I was doing before I did it. This situation is all my fault and I know that.

I just drove home like a deer caught in the headlights. I sit here now feeling like someone is telling a story about some manic that showed up for an MMA fight.

[Toptomcat]

Point-sparring competition can be quite tough for people who don't practice it regularly- I'm frankly not surprised that it ended up that way, since you seemed to be trying to figure out how it worked at the day of the comp, which is about as far from ideal as can be imagined. Even guys who have years of experience in point- guys who train specifically to win point tournaments- can get tripped up in the vagaries of the degree of contact allowed to one target or another in a given federation, or in a given tournament.

Yes, the judge's histrionics were probably unjustified, but you shouldn't have expected much of anything other than a DQ considering the degree of preparation you walked in the door with. Sorry to be harsh, but dem's the breaks.

Also, it probably didn't help that you threw a hook: point karate can be kind of provincial, and given the same amount of contact they'll penalize a hook nine times out of ten and a gyaku-tsuki or backfist one time out of ten.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Toptomcat

[Lupin1]

That's crazy dude. I've only ever tried point sparring once in my life and that was in my own dojo and we were allowed to make head contact because, well, that's what we learn. I probably wouldn't have entered a competition when I didn't know all the rules. I know figuring it out as he went worked for Daniel-san, but competitions seem to be overly cautious nowerdays just like everything else. You gotta let guys be guys and I see nothing wrong with some light head contact and moderate body contact in a contact sport as long as you're wearing the right gear. Maybe stick to the kinda stuff your dojo does like kata or whatever. Or ask your instructor if you all can do some sparring just to help learn what to do for competitions.

[sensei8]

I don't have a problem with the DQ, it happens from time to time. One of the most important responsibilities of the judges is to make sure that the competitors are safe irregardless of what anyone else might or might not say. I too, would've possibly DQ'd you as well from what you've described. BUT, judges have to assume that every competitor has read and understands the rules of that tournament, that's the responsibility of every competitor.

What I have a problem with is that you received a public lecture from the judges. The judges, or at least the arbitrator, should've spoke to you on the side after that ring was completed, but not in front of everyone...very uncalled for imho!

You being new to point sparring and without having any proper preperation as to what you could expect, I'm not surprised as to the outcome. More importantly, reviewing the rules before would've made all of the difference. Listen, you're a beginner and things like contact are to be expected, especially with nerves as well as adreniline and what-have-you, yet, the only one that should have anything to say to you is YOUR INSTRUCTOR, that's his/her job, not the judges for public display. How can a beginner be in total control? They can't. The apprearance that the competitor is truly making every attempt to control their techniques must be paramount to the judges. Experienced judges can tell if someone is truly trying to control their techniques or not. Some judges are more relaxed in enforcing the rules and in that, judges want to see some contact, as long as a measured control can be detected by the judges. It's like a strike zone in baseball. Some umpires have a bigger strike zone, while some umpires have a smaller strike zone. The key here is consistency from the umpires. Martial arts tournament judges are no different when contact is or isn't allowed and how much is too much.

I'm sorry that your first tournament wasn't as you had hoped for. But, keep attending and don't allow this experience to taint your drive and desires in the martial arts.

I'm on your side and you've my support!

Edited March 8, 2010 by sensei8

[GeoGiant]

Thanks for everyone's opinion.

First - my instructor wasn’t at the event, he was out of town. I can’t blame him for any of this. Basically, I went to him on a Monday when he was walking out the door for vacation and said hey there is a tournament on Saturday and I want to compete. He said that was okay for me to attend but he said he wished that he would have worked with me on sport sparring. Looking back it seemed that several BBs as well as my instructor may have showed some concern about me going but I was so gung-ho about going I guess I put them in a position that they would have had to tell me no. My instructor asked a blue belt to go with me – that should have been another hint to me. I talked with this blue belt after the match and he told me that I was too aggressive and there was too much contact but he said he would have expected as much from a yellow belt. He seemed very annoyed that the judges gave me a public tongue-lashing. I asked him if I was crossing the line and said no. I don’t think this guy would sugar coat it for me because I told him that my I felt my roundhouse kick was a tap and he corrected me and said…. it was more than a tap, it wasn’t over-the-top for a yellow belt to lack control, but it was more than a tap..

With reference to the rules, I'm not sure that someone could have told me anything other than drilling into my head that head contact was not allowed. The target area was defined for me and rules of stopping/starting were explained. It seemed that the judges had a problem with contact, or controlled contact as they called it. I decided to stick around and watch some others spar, including the black belts. I figured I would use the black belt (BB) movements to judge myself (I always need a frame of reference). Well the BBs were just tapping each other. Back fists were being throw that were 12-inches (or roughly 30.5 centimeters for my metric brothers) from the other persons head and that was called a point. I must say, the guy that this back fist was thrown at was not in a position to defend but… 12-inches away. As most know, closing those 12-inches can be tough. Not to over-simplify or take anything away from the BB that took first place, but he spend most of time with his hands at his sides, back foot planted on the floor and front foot 3 or 4 feet off the ground (this guy was 6-foot / 1.83 meters or taller). I was the tallest guy there so if I employed the same technique as the winner, I would have forced each opponent to push my leg down or to the side and then they would have to strike me before I hit them with my forward hand. That just seems weird to me. Its like a 300 lb guy wrestling a 175 lb guy… ok the 300 lb guy wins but so what…. shouldn’t the 300 lb guy win anyway? As martial artists what are accomplishing or demonstrating by balancing on one leg and toe tapping the advancing opponent.

I love to idea of competing and using the skills that I have been taught. I spent a few weeks training for this competition (as opposed to researching it!!!). I’m lifting weights, hopping up & down bleacher steps, working the heavy bag with 1 lb palm weights in my hands…. I’m in my basement jumping off and on a box with hand weights above my head trying to get my stamina up. The whole time I’m thinking, if I can get my abs, back and shoulders stronger while making it an instinct to keep my hands up around my head, I can move around the ring area, absorb some shots, and focus on breathing until I get a hold of my adrenaline…. then as soon as I have my focus I would advance and force my opponent to go toe to toe (everyone loves to kick so I’m thinking move in close, punch then finish with a kick). I practiced for hours with my face pressed against the bag while throwing low, middle, and high hooks. Keep in mind that no one ever told me to do any of this training. I read books, magazines, and online stuff about training for a….. FIGHT… Doh. I tried to indentify were my weak points where and correct them

Toptomcat - I own that DQ and I take no offence to anyone saying what you stated. I joined this forum because so many people like you seem so knowledgeable in the art of martial arts and I’m as interested in the art, history and philosophy as much as I am interested in the technique. Before the DQ, I was given the point for my roundhouse but I was yelled at for contact. No where did I read or was told that we were trying to avoid all contact when aiming in the contact area. Again, my opponent didn’t buckle or seem hurt but he knew I was there. Looking back, if that match was today I would have to abandon most of what I’ve learned and spar the way that BB did.

Lupin 1 – I attend 3 or 4 classes a week. 2 classes are focused on proper movement, one-step defences and kata. Then at least once a week one class is devoted to sparring. Because I’m older and taller I usullay spar with a BB. Our sparing focuses on body shots but light head contact is made. Typically if (I should say when) someone hits someone in the face / head area everything freezes for a second, eye contact is made, and both give a nod or say I’m okay and we keep going. If I drop my hands, I get hit. If I dance around too much a BB will close in on me, chest to chest, and he will force me throw him off me. A few times after sparring I thought I was going to puke.

My instructor is an older gentleman that is retired and teaches because he loves it. Based on what I’m learning outside the dojo he is a throw back to the old days… I don’t wear headgear, only a mouth piece when sparring. If I get clocked, I’m told that I got hit because…. I never feel like I’m being forced to do anything. The BBs lets us set the tone… if we come hard and fast, then they come hard and fast. Not everyone in the class takes it to the level of heavy contact but I’m certainly not the only one.

Sensi8 – I have to agree with you, reviewing the rules won’t have made a difference. I knew not to make head contact but we got tangled up and my training took over. I’ve trained not to hit hard when taking a head shot but I have trained to take the shot when it is available. Thanks for the support.

This experience will not affect my desire to train, I’m not sure about point sparring, but I live to train. I hope I don’t sound like a jerk by saying this but the way instinct took over was exhilarating. When I stepped to the side and threw the kick I don’t remember going through the motion, I remember shifting my weight and then the top of my foot was striking his rib area and my hands never dropped. Same thing with the hook that got me DQ’ed. I don’t remember thinking punch. I remember stepping forward so he couldn’t kick me, we were really tangled up and I never dropped my head, then I started feeling my weight shifting to my front foot and twisting from my hips…. then I see my fist coming around, arm bent at a 90 degree angle and my elbow was high. Instinctively I pulled the punch after a light tap to the side of his forehead and then the judges screamed STOP. It felt like that hook happened in slow motion. I stopped instantly when the judges said so (I’m used to listening for my instructor to say stop) but at that moment my other hand was chambered and I was getting ready to give him a punch in the ribs. Granted this guy wasn’t expecting someone to be MMA fighting so he probably wasn’t protecting himself very well but I felt like I was about to level him… my breathing was steady (I wasn’t holding my breath) and my heart wasn’t racing. I felt like I was in a zone that I can’t describe. I had no feeling of anger or aggressiveness against my opponent. It was almost like my opponent was there; I was completely focused on what I needed to do….. get inside, drive him back with punches, as soon as he makes a straight back movement finish him with a front kick if the hands go down or a roundhouse if the hands go up.

Ok I’m sure I sound like a nut now.

[Toptomcat]

Not at all. That's one of the better descriptions of getting 'in the zone' I've seen, which is a common experience among athletes of all types, including karateka. You seem to have an ideal mindset for competition, just not stop-and-start point karate: I'd urge you to try continuous point sparring such as opposed to stop-and-start, or even knockdown or amateur kickboxing if you feel up to it.

[WireFrame]

GeoGiant, you acted exactly how I probably would have done.

Some people train to tap each other, other people train to fight.

Just shows how unlike a real martial art sports/points competitions are getting.

Its always good to test yourself, but from I can see the tappy-tappy tournament people were playing a different game than you were, maybe worth trying a different kind of points-sparring like has been suggested. Or just enjoy training.

Either way I definitely don't think you should feel too bad about any of it. Just chalk it up to experience.

[sensei8]

Ok I’m sure I sound like a nut now.

Nope....sounding like a very solid yellow belt!!!!

[KarateGeorge]

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much over it. It was your first tournament, and you went in not really knowing what the rules were, and as a yellow belt, you're still new to the whole world of martial arts. Take it as a learning experience, and that way, should you decide to comopete in another tournament, you can go to it better prepared. Different tournaments may have different rules, so always make sure you understand the ground rules of the tournament you are going to be attending and what is considered fair contact and unfair contact, etc.

[Sokusen]

Don't get to down on point sparring it does have it's place, you just have to remember it's a game. All Point sparring no matter what the rules are is a game of tag. You can find tournaments that have rules that better fit with what you are learning but ultimately sport karate (point sparring) and what you learn in the dojo to defend yourself are two totally different things. Games have rules real life doesn’t. The reason the winner of the black belt division was on one leg the whole time is probably because they didn't allow sweeps. You go to a tournament that allows sweeps you'll see a completely different set of tactics. The range for what’s allowed and what isn't varies between different organizations so find one that suites you. Point sparring can be really fun, I suggest AAU or WKF tournaments (I am sure there are youtube highlights) they offer the amount of contact you may be looking for but at the same time keeping it safe. Remember don't get discouraged just learn the rules.