Ok history buffs, how about a recommendation

[GeoGiant]

Thanks!

[bushido_man96]

I’m trying to learn more about the history (as opposed to philosophy) of Tang Soo Do. I recently read Tang Soo Do the Way of the Warrior by Dominick Giacobbe and it was very good book but didn’t give me a tremendous amount of history. The book did touch on the Silla Dynasty and the formation of Hwarang, which seem to be the starting point for understanding the history of the art.

Can anyone recommend a book that would give me a good understanding of the Hwarang? I’ve searched several book sites and most books on the topic of Silla / Hwarang get mixed reviews. Mixed reviews wouldn’t scare me if I knew the intent of the person reading the book.

The problem with reading history of Korean Martial Arts is that there really isn't much out there. The current styles of TKD, TSD, and Hapkido, are all derivatives of Japanese styles of Karate. As much as other sources want to claim that TSD and TKD are derived from Taek Kyon, Kwon Bup, Soo Bak, or other such past styles, the connection really isn't there.

[kwanjang21532]

If you just concentrate on Tang Soo Do as having been founded in 1945, or pick a date that you wish to represent that it was founded in the US, you will avoid a lot of confusing and frustrating history that has no relevance to the Moo Duk Kwan than Grandmasyter Hwang Kee envisioned. It all relates to that.

V. Noble

[isshinryu5toforever]

If you want occupation and post-occupation history Bruce Cummings is the author to look up. He's a professor of history at Chicago University, and one of the few Korean studies scholars of prominence in the US.

His book Korea's Place in the Sun: A Modern History is a good place to start. This won't give you a great idea on the martial arts, but it will give you a firm grasp on why the KMAs have taken their current path, why nationalist history has been re-written, and why outright lies are widespread.

If you want a comprehensive, and I mean completely comprehensive study of the Korean peninsula post-WWII pre-Korean War, then look at Origins of the Korean War Volumes 1 and 2. Don't buy them unless you're a Korean studies person, like me, because they're very expensive and hard to find. Your library might be able to track down the volumes. It'll take a ton of time to dig through them (I think nearly 2,000 pages in total), but it will give you one of the best researched dissections of the post-occupation Korean peninsula, and the lead up to its movement toward modernity. The major criticism of these volumes has been that they rely on North Korean sources too much, and that they're over-critical of the United States' foreign policy at the time. I'd say it gives a more balanced view. That's just my opinion.

If you're very intent on finding the history of modern KMAs, then you'll need to be well aware of the history of modern Korea. How it was shaped by the Japanese occupation, and what happened post-occupation. It might help you pick through things if you want to go to the library and have them find books for you. Most libraries have a shared database, and they can request books from other libraries.

[kozushi]

Tang Soo Do is the Korean pronunciation for Kara Te Do. You can look to Shotokan for its induction to Korea via Won Kuk Lee in 1944, opening the Chung do Kwan in Seoul, the first martial arts club allowed under Japanese rule there. Lee moved there in 1944 from Japan to escape the bombing runs. He left Korea in 1950 at the start of the Korean war, and his students who stayed behind went onto create the army's hand to hand combat system - Taekwondo.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Tang Soo Do is the pronunciation of the old kanji for Karate. The newer kanji (by newer, I mean early 1900s newer) mean "empty hand." Tang Soo Do means Tang (dynasty) hand way. It used to be the same in Japan, but has been changed to empty, which is pronounced Kong in Korean. Kong Soo Do is the modern Korean pronunciation of Karate-do "Empty hand way."

Kanji in Japanese are Korean Hanja

Tang Soo Do hanja: 唐手道

Karate-do (old kanji): 唐手道

Karate as written in kanji now: 空手

So, Tang Soo Do is the Korean pronunciation of Karate-do, but not the modern Karate it was based off of. The claims to have links all the way back to the early Korean dynasties are dubious at best. Like I said, Korean MA history prior to the Japanese Colonial period is not necessarily difficult to track down, but sifting through the claims of modern Korean MAs being linked directly to ancient ones is much more difficult.

[kozushi]

I don't know why the Koreans can't take pride in their excellent traditional Ssirum wrestling and archery prowess, and accept their own modern inventions (like TKD) as modern, and it is okay to be modern!

Even the Muye Dobo Tongji is made up of a great many Japanese and Chinese weapons forms. Taking something foreign and then modifying it for your own use is what everybody does. Even Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and Christianity came from elsewhere.

[isshinryu5toforever]

The muye dobo tongji movement today is ridiculous. They're basically trying to figure things out from an old handbook.

That's actually why I suggested reading up on Korean history during the occupation and directly after. It explains the why for a lot of the revisionist history. Everyone revises history. Paul Revere, Thanksgiving, people believing the world was flat when Columbus was around (they didn't), etc. It's all done to make things sound more magnificent than they truly are.

[kozushi]

I haven't read the Muye book in Korean yet; I own it in English. There is almost no way to actually bring the movements correctly back to life from the English translation. However, maybe some superior scholarship, cross-referencing names for techniques and postures from Chinese and Japanese living traditions, could do it though. I have a hope that the guys into doing this work in Korea know what they are doing. A lot of the stuff I've seen recreated looks pretty convincing. I tried to learn a halberd poomse from the book, and what I came up with was significantly different than the one the recreationists performed on Youtube. But if you're willing to accept that you might get it 5 to 10% wrong but 90-95% right, and this doesn't bother you then I think there is definitely something to it.

I think the unarmed stuff is more interesting these days since we don't walk around with weapons much. Having said that, I do stick fighting an hour a week with my judo buddies, and it is a very interesting activity!

The TKD stuff is gold, since you don't need hardly any space to do it; you can do it at home; and you don't need any equipment at all! Taekkyon, Ssirum, Muye stuff and archery all take either someone to do it with or lots of space.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I think they're on the track of getting 95% of everything wrong and maybe 5% right. There is no way to decipher the book. It's a rudimentary primer, not a complete system. That's the main problem. They fill in the huge holes with speculation. I just don't think there is a single link to ancient Korean MAs.

Taekkyon comes the closest, but it is a folk game at heart. Same with ssireum. I think they should embrace what came out of the post-occupation period and stop worrying about the past.