Wrist Rotation...WHEN?

[sensei8]

When executing gyaku-zuki (reverse punch), the wrist obviously plays a very important role due as to WHEN the wrist begins IT'S rotation. Of course, many other things, beside proper wrist rotation, must be performed and in concert for this tecnique to be its most effective. The difference, imho, between an effective punch and a push is very subtle at its best.

A few questions:

>Concerning only the wrist rotation; Just exactly WHEN should it occur?

>What are some of the disadvantages for starting the wrist rotation too early?

>What are some of the disadvantages for starting the wrist rotation too late?

What I've layed down here should be enough to start our discussion.

What are your thoughts?

[todome]

First of all, it's my understanding that forearm rotation is concommitant with a reversal of shoulder rotation as the elbow goes from pointing down to pointing out. I say reversal because the shoulder must rotate laterally slightly throughout prior to the forearm rotation in order to accomodate some subtle geometry involving distances from the pivot and is therefore rotating slightly throughout (kind of like a differential on a car only less obvious). I'd even go so far as to say forearm rotation is useless if its not being driven by the shoulder rotation.

That said, forearm rotation should begin at the exact point which allows maximum power to be applied to the technique such that the rotation completes at total body kime. Poor timing results in the dissipation of force over time and therefore a less powerful technique.

Edited February 26, 2010 by todome

[Chitsu]

Hello,

Can I ask why you ask only re: "gyaku-zuki"? - what of junzuki, tobikomizuki etc.?

Chitsu

[sensei8]

Hello,

Can I ask why you ask only re: "gyaku-zuki"? - what of junzuki, tobikomizuki etc.?

Chitsu

For no special reason, it's just what I selected for this thread. Cool?

[Kuma]

My personal opinions:

(1) The wrist should start rotating as soon as the elbow clears your oblique.

(2) Starting too early causes you to lose much of the power gained from the rotation of the arm as a whole and ends up being more of a push rather than a strike.

(3) Starting too late causes you to not land your strike properly and, because your power still hasn't fully formed yet, contact with your opponent effectively diminishes your strike from achieving its max velocity.

[Chitsu]

In Kihon, I tend to break down the 180 deg fist rotation into two halfs.

First; when the fist leaves the side of the body it is in fingers up position, however at the point of initial impact (the point where the punch first touches the opponents body) it is in a vertical position (tate seiken) - i.e. it has travelled 90 degrees until this point.

The remaining 90 degrees rotation happens as the fist penetrates into the body, until kime point where the fist completes its 180 deg journey.

As I understand it, beyond this – the classic karate “fist chamber” position and rotation was more an exercise against fresh air to engender correct biomechanical form. By chambering in a “fist up” position it is not only aesthetically tidy, but also helps keep the elbow in as you punch, and therefore keeping it directly behind the fist which lends its self to good mechanics and a strong punch. Turn the fist too soon and the elbow wings out.

Chitsu

[todome]

It seems to me it's not that hard for me to slap my ribs with the thumb of my withdrawing hand by holding off the rotation only slightly so "when" for me is something in the order of the length of a fist from the target.

[JAKEHE3078]

without seeing your technique, I would say, remember to fully rotate just before impact.

[Montana]

A few questions:

>Concerning only the wrist rotation; Just exactly WHEN should it occur?

>What are some of the disadvantages for starting the wrist rotation too early?

>What are some of the disadvantages for starting the wrist rotation too late?

The wrist should begin its rotation late in the technique so that it is still in the process of rotating when it makes contact..the more rotation it is doing when it makes contact, the better. And here's a difference in systems, but at the end of the punch (our punch anyway), the elbow is still pointing downwards, not out...which makes your elbow less vulnerable to getting injured.

Starting the roation to early means the fist can be totally rotated by the time it makes contact with its target, thereby losing any advantage you've gained by rotatinbg the fist.

Starting the rotation to late isn't good either, as you'll make contact with the fist and transfer that power to your opponent and his body will be moving backwards while you are losing contact with your fist...essentially, there would be no advantage to the rotation.

[Chitsu]

without seeing your technique, I would say, remember to fully rotate just before impact.

But if you fully rotate the fist before impact, you lose the rifling effect of the fist rotation and the trauma caused by it, as the fist penetrated your opponents body.

Tbh, I vary rarely use a twisting punch in application, but the principle is there.

Chitsu