Which style of karate?

[JAKEHE3078]

I say go with Kyokushin, IMO its more practical to real world situations.

[mel]

Im from the UK

I am interested in starting karate (for fitness and self confidence - not interested in winning medals etc) but id like something which would toughen me up for the street.

The choice is between

Kyokushin and zen-shin-ryu.

I know about Kyokushin karate but ive dont know anything about zen-shin-ryu. Here is the website to zen-shin-ryu club...

http://www.uifma-doveropenkarateclub.com/index.html

Any advice or knowledge would be great!

Jiyu-kumite training(including fullcontact without protection) as normally done in karate classes is ok, but being able to take 'empty hand' punishment in the dojo is no 100% guarantee of street survival. It would be nice to get up and walk after being struck ready for more attacks, but crawling and/or staggering(if you're still breathing) after a multiple armed(heavy blunt, and/or sharp weapons) attack are not uncommon out in the streets. If you want something purely for the street, head off towards Krav Maga or its distant cousin, Systema

My experience was with Systema(and some unfortunate and shameful bar-room incidents), and there's a lot of fullcontact there. At the same time, there's a pervading philosophy to this day from it's head instructor all the way from Canada that says, one does not destroy(accidentally, or intentionally) one's fellow students. In the Systema class I was in, this point was emphasized many times by the instructor(trained in Canada) whether training 'empty hand', or with weapons. The fullcontact as such was important because the one receiving the blow had to have something to work with, and I'd often be told to make more contact

It all depends on the individual on how effective he's going to be out in the streets. During Systema training, there were more than a few times when I was able to attack even the more experienced from various angles they couldn't see or anticipate during multiple-attack training(all the class members against one person). Survival is not a matter of pride, but luck. One cannot always avoid 100% a blind-side

I didn't stay with Systema, and I went back to Shotokan. Shotokan may be considered by many as far from practical street-wise, but such views are irrelevant to those like myself who have a passion for Japanese culture, and Shotokan as the world knows it today can hardly be called Okinawan(let alone Chinese, albeit a corrupted version). But...I enjoy Shotokan. Is it effective? Who cares! It connects me with a history, and culture. I learnt a long time ago that constantly worrying about what may happen in a dark alley or deserted street/road just takes too much of my pleasure time

[Toptomcat]

Im from the UK

I am interested in starting karate (for fitness and self confidence - not interested in winning medals etc) but id like something which would toughen me up for the street.

The choice is between

Kyokushin and zen-shin-ryu.

I know about Kyokushin karate but ive dont know anything about zen-shin-ryu. Here is the website to zen-shin-ryu club...

http://www.uifma-doveropenkarateclub.com/index.html

Any advice or knowledge would be great!

Jiyu-kumite training(including fullcontact without protection) as normally done in karate classes is ok, but being able to take 'empty hand' punishment in the dojo is no 100% guarantee of street survival. It would be nice to get up and walk after being struck ready for more attacks, but crawling and/or staggering(if you're still breathing) after a multiple armed(heavy blunt, and/or sharp weapons) attack are not uncommon out in the streets. If you want something purely for the street, head off towards Krav Maga or its distant cousin, Systema

My experience was with Systema(and some unfortunate and shameful bar-room incidents), and there's a lot of fullcontact there. At the same time, there's a pervading philosophy to this day from it's head instructor all the way from Canada that says, one does not destroy(accidentally, or intentionally) one's fellow students. In the Systema class I was in, this point was emphasized many times by the instructor(trained in Canada) whether training 'empty hand', or with weapons. The fullcontact as such was important because the one receiving the blow had to have something to work with, and I'd often be told to make more contact

It all depends on the individual on how effective he's going to be out in the streets. During Systema training, there were more than a few times when I was able to attack even the more experienced from various angles they couldn't see or anticipate during multiple-attack training(all the class members against one person). Survival is not a matter of pride, but luck. One cannot always avoid 100% a blind-side

I didn't stay with Systema, and I went back to Shotokan. Shotokan may be considered by many as far from practical street-wise, but such views are irrelevant to those like myself who have a passion for Japanese culture, and Shotokan as the world knows it today can hardly be called Okinawan(let alone Chinese, albeit a corrupted version). But...I enjoy Shotokan. Is it effective? Who cares! It connects me with a history, and culture. I learnt a long time ago that constantly worrying about what may happen in a dark alley or deserted street/road just takes too much of my pleasure time

The problem with systema and Krav Maga from the perspective of a student looking for training is that there's no quality control: while good training in either system is some of the best you can get, you can get instructor certification in both systems by mail order, and a great many people have done just that. Kyokushin is policed spectacularly well by comparison: in any of the main knockdown orgs, you can't get rank sufficiently high to credibly instruct without being someone who knows your stuff.

And without having trained before, you won't know the difference between a good school and a bad one- so I'd be leery of pointing someone looking for a style to learn towards Krav or systema unless I had a specific school in mind.

[Spodo Komodo]

To quote the Zen Shin Ryu website "the style is non-contact based" so it's not what I would choose myself. You can only get a real feel for a club by going along though, just go with your eyes and mind open and see which one suits you. I would say that Kyokushin would be the better style but if you add up all the factors and it doesn't suit you then who knows?

[TheKarateKid]

So uhmm IMO i would say neither and find a Shotokan dojo. but remember its only one persons opinion. I love shotokan and the TSKF (traditional shotokan karate-do fedaration) cheif instructor , Shihan Takahashi , comes out twice a year to do gradings.

~Rhi

[mel]

I started with Goju, but I ended up with Shotokan and its emphasis on straight lines and that old principle of.....'one strike/one kill'. I just have great admiration for this style

Goju can get quite circular, whilst experience with Seido and Kyokushin showed much emphasis on sporting attitudes and spirit. Sporting competitions just never found a place for me. I also tried to take up Systema to improve my Shotokan, but joining the 2 different forms of training was just not going to be a compatible marriage. For example, the Systema classes I attended did not have long-reaching or long-range punches or kicks, and there was no talk that I could recall of such things as using hip movements. On the other hand I often got into strife with my old Goju teacher because my arms were never in the full stretch position(for punches) during kihon waza, and other parts of the training

I'd recommend Shotokan for anyone with an interest in not only the martial art, but the history and culture of Japan. Karate was an Okinawan art(and many thanks to the Chinese, of course), but combined with studies of the HAGAKURE, Bushido, and others...one ends up seeing something of that old but beautiful and elegant samurai world and culture, for without which, Japan would never have become an economic power house of our modern and advanced Western civilization. No disrespect meant to the Okinawans by not giving them enough credits in this posting, but I do believe that the sons and daughters of Nippon have always had something good going for them, and are quite acceptable to emulate today

[mr_obvious]

As I said in your other thread, go Kyokushin. They have an excellent reputation, and the number of dubious claims made on the Zen-Shin club's Web site makes me suspicious of them.

I was gonna say -- this thread is like Deja Vu...

[sam2006]

As I said in your other thread, go Kyokushin. They have an excellent reputation, and the number of dubious claims made on the Zen-Shin club's Web site makes me suspicious of them.

You are right to be suspicious. Google "uifma" and see how many clubs they have in this 'association'. Compare that with BKK, UKASKO, NAKMAS.

[jsteczko]

Well, because I don't know much about Zen Shin Ryu I would choose Kyokushin. But who knows, maybe Zen Shin Ryu is also a good style.

[julien]

Why not try out both schools and see which you prefer?