Weapons Training???? Why is your Karate not good enough?

[tallgeese]

I see where you're coming from DWx. I agree, there are probably some cross over aspects with trad weapons that might be useful.

For me, it's about time management and playing the odds. First up, I have limited training time. That means if I want to do weapons, I need to focus on the primary one's I'm going to deploy. As above, knife, club, and gun. Then, I need to put the most time in the ones I place the most value in. So, at this stage in my life: gun, then knife, and finally club.

The cross over effect you, and others, have mentioned can probably be surpassed by specifically drilling unarmed work that will accomplish the same thing, more likely in a quicker fashion. So, whatever you might achieve for your unarmed skills by training trad weapons, I'd focus on drilling without the weapon. It's specific, designed for the application you're working on, and therefore will be a better learning tool.

All this is, of course, predicated on training primarily for sd. If working trad weapons is an end of itself for one, then it should be pursued on that basis alone and with the support of the ma community at large. Not everything has to be for the same reasons.

[Kuma]

I think that there is little reason to train in classical weapons unless part of your goal is the preservation of their history.

From what little experience I have of kobudo, the small amount of training I did receive was eye-opening as to how the armed training actually affected my unarmed training. The nunchaku especially was interesting as you can really see how it affects the straight punch, roundhouse punch, and backfist. Tonfa stresses good blocking technique as well.

[Chitsu]

Hello,

Yes, this is a manifest example of how weapons work can be trained to compliment your unarmed stuff.

Chitsu

[ShoriKid]

Why train weapons when I'm training with karate? Why work on ground fighting when I'm training karate? Why look at boxing when I'm training karate? Perhaps because most of your first generation masters did.

Or it could be this. Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Never bring nothing to a knife fight.

I train weapons for the same reason I train karate. Because I want all of the advantages I can have in a fight. If I'm unarmed in the fight and the other person isn't, I'm at a disadvantage. Why would I do that? Why not fix things before they become a problem.

[Kuma]

Sokon Matsumura was quite the swordsman from what history tells us as well, Jigen-Ryu if I remember right. Interestingly enough, Jigen-Ryu is all about the first strike. I wonder if that's where we get "ikken hisatsu" from in karate...

Good enough for him, definitely good enough for me.

[Dobbersky]

All

Thank you for all your responses to this thread, No I am not truly this Ardent about Weapons training, Its just that like other in other styles the roots an reasons behind every move and technique have long since been forgotten.

Application of kata/forms are no longer being practiced for real situations (because we have "Self Defence" combinations included in the Syllabus - which gives the reason "Why Practice Kata?") they're been performed to win competitions/gradings only, THIS IS WHAT I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH.

Its the same as kumite, full contact knockdown karate is nothing like tippy tappy bouncy bouncy strike and scream to get a point.

Weapons Kata SHOULD be taught and practiced correctly by teachers who are not there just to get there students through competitions etc.

[weberje030916]

I feel that weapons training will help nurture kinesthetic awareness; Understanding that you have to maintain a constant awareness of the posture and orientation of the apparatus.

I am drawn to classical weapons with respect to the traditions that we still observe today. You do not bow to your opponent on the street before they sucker punch you however many observe this in their respective studio. The practice of these weapons help remind of us of the ancient origins that we keep alive in our education and training.

Traditional weapons were stylized at a period where they were the norm for the warriors of their day. As a a member of the warrior class in our culture (US Marine) I feel it necessary to train in current weapons of our period. Weapons of opportunity being another aspect of this.

As the great Tony Blauer has articulated, if you can't think to do it in your training arena, what makes you think you will come up with it when things "go kinetic." Weapons are not a replacement for your unarmed skills, but a supplement; fill in the voids where you would otherwise have no method or course of action.

[mudansha]

Ever heard the phrase "Never bring a knife to a gun fight"???

That is true in all things...

"Never bring a stick to a knife fight."

"Never bring fists to a stick fight"....

It takes a lot to overcome a weapon greater than your own. Better to be familiar with a weapon and never need it.

[Dobbersky]

I have enjoyed your posts

But the one thing that comes to mind (note this is to open discussions only) is we don't have Snooker-Que-do or Baseball-Bat-do or even Gun-Fu available. One issue is why teach bokken or Bo/Jo kata if you can't carry them on the street. I agree that there are some decent knife fighters and styles out there. One of my students (taught by an SAS instructor his father knew in the Army) demonstrates how he can cut 6 times to major arteries around the body before the “victim” has time to move. The “trick” is how the knife is held.

I recall seeing an add for Le Canne, a French style derived from Savate. This I can see as a worthy art to learn in today's society as walking sticks are legal to carry (not too sure about the ones with hidden daggers in them).

I believe in my own unarmed skills, my life is in God's hands and if it’s my time then my God ease my suffering or help me run as fast as I can outta there Amen

[Kuma]

One issue is why teach bokken or Bo/Jo kata if you can't carry them on the street.

Because it's easy to carry them over to things you can find lying around or in many cases disguise what they're really there for. I've heard of Escrimadors carrying around drum sticks in their pockets and jojutsu guys with walking sticks.