Knowledge-based training

[joesteph]

I wondered if KarateForums members teach or study along with students who do not have an interest in belt promotion, but are in regular training simply to gain martial arts knowledge. I don't mean the academic, but the actual forms and self-defense techniques.

I bring this up because the end of this month marks two years of my martial arts training, and that I have adequate knowledge to continue to assist my teacher with my special needs children for the rest of the year.

I have a limit to my martial arts abilities that concern kicking, and I am in a Korean martial art, therefore a martial art expecting proficient kicking ability. My performance for kicking to the torso, jump kicks for altitude, and spinning kicks is just passing. My arms are my true weapons. This is the way I was when I was in my thirties and studied Tae Kwon Do; now in my fifties and studying Soo Bahk Do, I haven't lost what I had in the past, but I have reached a ceiling. More of these kicks are to be introduced, and while I thank my teacher for accepting my efforts with what I've done so far, I believe there's a limit to what merit effort should receive, especially when a belt promotion is involved.

Besides reviewing what I have been taught so that knowledge is not lost, I am interested in the forms that are to be learned at different belt levels. There are also self-defense techniques and sparring exercises. I am always interested in applications. These I can do satisfactorily, and believe I should be/would most enjoy doing as the focus of my training.

So do you have students that you teach, or are in class with, who do not study for a promotion, likely don't study all that the next belt level entails, but study for the sake of martial arts knowledge?

[Lupin1]

I would say all but a few of our black belts fall into this category. My instructor only awards up to sandan and we have 3 or 4 sandans who have continued training, some of them having been here for decades, even though there are no more belts to be earned (unless they want to go somewhere else to be tested, but none of them have). All the rest of us can get pretty belt-motivated, though... We see them training for the sake of training and that's inspiring to us and we want to do that some day, but for right now we're human and we want our next belt as much as anyone else...

[tallgeese]

My group is a lot like this. Most of the regulars I train are cops and are more concerned with combative efficiency than rank rewards. I don't even bother ranking people until they are about a purple or brown belt.

[sensei8]

None of my students are belt driven, otherwise they'd not be my students. They're [my students] at the wrong dojo if belts/titles/promotions and the like are their main focus for learning the martial arts. Therefore, I teach and train only with students who do not have an interest in belt promotions and the like.

If a student of mine does become focused on belts/titles/promotions and the other stuff, well, I then sit that student down and have a very meaningful conversation. If after that and I see that the focus hasn't been properly redirected away from belts/titles/promotions and all of the other meaningless stuff, I'll expell them immediately with no reservations. I've no time for negative focus of this type at this magnitude.

Now, having said that. Promotions are conducted both quarterly and annually, but, a student of mine must be invited to the testing cycle and in that, there have been many, many occasions that none of my students were invited; and my students know of this possibility from day one. Why have there been times when none of my students wee invited to a testing cycle? It's simple. Belt promotions and the like have always taken a back seat to the importance of pure Karate training and aquiring effective knowledge of the martial arts.

[Lupin1]

I don't know, sensei. My opinion is, if you have ranks, people are going to be at least partly rank motivated, even if they don't show it. If you were to ask my instructor, he'd probably tell you I'm not motivated by rank because I never mention rank. For the first month and a half I trained we never mentioned what rank I was and I had no idea whether he was going to start me at white belt or let me wear the 6th kyu I had before. I didn't know until I got my uniform and decided I'd wear my white belt with it until told otherwise and then after that he started calling me a white belt. And I like being a white belt for now. But in the end, I have to admit I want my 6th kyu back and then I want my blue belt and then my green belt, etc. My instructor would probably happily say I'm not motivated by rank just like you said for your students, but I really am at this stage and I'm not afraid to admit it because it's completely natural. Of course, I don't just want the rank. If he made me a black belt tomorrow I'd quit and go somewhere that was going to make me work for it. I want the knowledge that goes with the rank, as well.

It's human nature to want to experience the non-physical through the physical. Look at pretty much every religion-- Catholics experiencing God through their Eucharist, Jews wearing yarmulkes to remind them of God always being above them, Hindus burning incense to connect to their gods and show their loyalty, Buddhists wearing rough, unfinished clothing to represent their spiritual unattachment, etc. It makes hard-to-grasp things easier to grasp and experience. How much knowledge one has on a subject is a very abstract thing and something we're not very good at judging ourselves. But when we have physical benchmarks in that knowledge, it makes it easier. Someone who wants to gain knowledge in math may work for their Bachelors and then Masters and then Doctorate. Although the ultimate goal is the knowledge itself, you can bet a graduate student wants that Masters degree and is probably thinking more about that than about how much knowledge they're going to have when they get it. It's just easier for humans to grasp that physical sign. As long as those physical signs are there, humans will care about them, whether they show it or not. In my opinion, if you don't want any of your students to be at all rank motivated, you have to get rid of ranks.

[Sibylla]

None of the places where I train are especially rank orientated. One club is centered around kick/thaiboxing/MMA, while the other is FMA/kickboxing/MMA. Both places, maybe especially the latter, have students with considerable experience from traditional arts. The "vibe" of those clubs is different from the more traditional dojos I've been in, people are more training and learning motivated I guess.

It's a shame though that some traditional dojos do such a good job of getting rid of students that don't fit the whole rank crazy system. They could be a great resource.