Complementing Shotokan

[Fearun9033]

Knowledgeable Shotokan stylists have a saying. When told that we will be met "anywhere at anytime" for a fight, our choice is high noon in a phone booth.

My instructors have always emphasized close-in fighting techniques. All one must do to see the close range techniques in Shotokan is examine the katas. Hook punches in Heian Nidan, Tekki Shodan, and others. Upward elbow strikes such as in Gojushio Dai and others. Cross elbow strikes as seen in Heian Yondan and others. Knee attacks in Heian Yondan and others. All of these are in your face, close in fighting techniques and there are many, many examples in Shotokan katas.

I did notice that there are some rather short ranged attacks in some katas. I'm not saying Shotokan is useless in close-in fighting. It's just that in free sparring, Shotokan practitioners know how to keep distance, preferring long-range techniques over brawling. Now, i'm just saying that suppose some idiot you meet in the street rushes at you and you somehow didn't take him down or he took u by surprise and is basically in your face, Shotokan doesn't prepare one for that per se; compare this to Muay Thai which has so much emphasis on knee (which i believe are illegal in Shotokan competition) and elbow strikes and you start to see my point.

Also, I'm not doing grappling for whatever "fad" you guys are mentioning, I just think it might complement Shotokan well.

[Chitsu]

The only thing that will make your Shotokan any better, is to practice more Shotokan.

That depends largely on what you view the purpose of Shotokan to be. If you view it primarily as a method of exercise, or an art in the aesthetic sense, or as a spiritual pursuit, then perhaps you are correct. If you view it as a practical method of self-defense, then you will be well served by beginning training in a grappling discipline.

I also think it depends on your definition (and the context) of the word to "compliment".

You tend to hear this used quite a lot on ma forums and mags etc.

Is it your definition - to plug holes, or is it to enhance?

Many think that it is one and the same thing, but I would suggest to those that do, that they have yet to acquire the knowledge, to make an informed decision.

Chitsu

[WireFrame]

The only thing that will make your Shotokan any better, is to practice more Shotokan:

Old adage - you get good at what you practice - period.

If however, you are looking to broaden your outlook on "Budo" (and btw that takes considerable existing knowledge to do so) - then maybe look at arts that will improve your understanding of things like movement (and the principles inherent to it) such as Tai-chi or Aikido etc.

Chitsu

Funny I was thinking of doing Tai-chi, anything particular you would say is beneficial about it?

[Toptomcat]

Funny I was thinking of doing Tai-chi, anything particular you would say is beneficial about it?

That depends entirely on whether you find Tai chi chih or just plain "Tai Chi", which is fundamentally meditative low-impact exercise for oldsters, or a more traditional, more martial form of Tai chi chuan, which has the same quality control problems as many other traditional Chinese martial arts, but is quite worthwhile as a MA if you can find a good kwoon.

Which is one of those once-in-a-blue-moon things unless you live in an area with a large Chinese population.

[Fearun9033]

That depends entirely on whether you find Tai chi chih or just plain "Tai Chi", which is fundamentally meditative low-impact exercise for oldsters, or a more traditional, more martial form of Tai chi chuan, which has the same quality control problems as many other traditional Chinese martial arts, but is quite worthwhile as a MA if you can find a good kwoon.

Which is one of those once-in-a-blue-moon things unless you live in an area with a large Chinese population.

Agreed, the low-impact, yoga-like version of Tai Chi is highly popular in China and includes slow movements and focus on breathing. More of a meditation than an actual martial art.

The combat form of Taijiquan is very, very hard to find. I personally haven't found a single good dojo of that in my area. I heard that this style focuses very much on fluid movements that uses the opponent's momentum against himself rather than hard fighting. It would be cool to learn

[WireFrame]

Hmm, sounds like either but especially the latter form would be a nice antidote to basic Shotokan's often hard and straight style.

[Dr. Frank]

"It's just that in free sparring, Shotokan practitioners know how to keep distance, preferring long-range techniques over brawling."

Again, depends on what type of Shotokan you are learning. There is a perception that Shotokan is all about those long, deep stances and that is exactly what the JKA has emphasized since the death of Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi. The style was altered from Funakoshi's original teachings to be more competitive in sporting tournaments and the deep stances were designed for ippon kumite and to impress the judges in kata rings. Many current instructors may be unaware of Shotokan's original function which was to be a close range fighting art. I have routinely practiced close fighting against multiple opponents since beginning my training.

This is what I find frustrating about Internet forums. I wish I could meet you in person and demonstrate the many, many close in fighting techniques found in a great number of the Shotokan katas. Stomps, knee and elbow strikes, eye rakes etc. abound. Many times I have heard people say "That's not Shotokan" but it is... if you understand the art as it was taught before 1957.

[Dr. Frank]

TopTomCat- Be careful when making assumptions. I have, indeed, sparred with a Judo man of equal experience to myself in karate. We were friends and we were both interested in what would happen.

It took him about six tries to get a hold of me. When he did, he sent me sailing and it was a most unpleasant experience. But the first five attempts ended with me kicking, punching or striking him squarely as he lunged for me and he freely admitted after our practice session that in a real fight he would not have been able to take me down unless he got lucky or I got cocky (as I did the 6th time we engaged).

I do not mean to disparage Judo, which is a beautiful and useful art. But it requires grabbing the opponent and if the opponent knows what is coming, and has weapons to counter the attempt at grabbing, the Judo man has a serious problem before him. Now, if the Judoka catches his opponent by surprise, then it is the other fellow who faces some serious consequences.

[WireFrame]

"It's just that in free sparring, Shotokan practitioners know how to keep distance, preferring long-range techniques over brawling."

Again, depends on what type of Shotokan you are learning. There is a perception that Shotokan is all about those long, deep stances and that is exactly what the JKA has emphasized since the death of Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi. The style was altered from Funakoshi's original teachings to be more competitive in sporting tournaments and the deep stances were designed for ippon kumite and to impress the judges in kata rings. Many current instructors may be unaware of Shotokan's original function which was to be a close range fighting art. I have routinely practiced close fighting against multiple opponents since beginning my training.

This is what I find frustrating about Internet forums. I wish I could meet you in person and demonstrate the many, many close in fighting techniques found in a great number of the Shotokan katas. Stomps, knee and elbow strikes, eye rakes etc. abound. Many times I have heard people say "That's not Shotokan" but it is... if you understand the art as it was taught before 1957.

Exactly. My school has much more of a focus on practical application and close-range shotokan. It's part of the KUGB, not the JKA.

[Chitsu]

KUGB...

Mssrs Sherry and Brennan.

Any truth in the rumour?

Chitsu