Determining Place in Line

[Lupin1]

Wouldn't it be great if one day your/mine Sensei said...."Line up wherever you want, just hurry up!" and then we did?

You know what? As a matter of fact....I'm going to do just that tomorrow, 02/08/2010, at the Hombu at each and every class...as an experiment!

Oooo! Now that sounds interesting. Can you post what happened?

[DWx]

Wouldn't it be great if one day your/mine Sensei said...."Line up wherever you want, just hurry up!" and then we did?

We do a non-belt/t-shirt sparring and fitness class once a week where nothing is grade dependant. We occasionally line up just so everyone has enough space on the floor. Without consciously doing it, higher grades tend to gravitate to the front of the room and the lower grades head towards the back even when we can stand where we want. Maybe the lower grades like that security of having someone else to watch and the higher grades just get used to the front?

Not technically Japanese system (although we are sorta descendant from it). We have highest grade top right (facing the instructor). Then within the belt groupings, usually we do it irrespective of time in rank but on the person's age. Time in rank is an alternative way of lining up and sometimes people will do it this way. We're not too strict to be honest, as long as belt colour is order its fine.

If in doubt anyway, just go to the end of your colour belt. Worst thing that will happen is you'll get promoted up the lines.

[Chitsu]

Yes, I'm a Hachidan and all that...

Hi Sensei8,

Can I ask, is your rank the result of a physical grading, or were you awarded it?

Chitsu

[sensei8]

Yes, I'm a Hachidan and all that...

Hi Sensei8,

Can I ask, is your rank the result of a physical grading, or were you awarded it?

Chitsu

Chitsu,

Per our By-Laws, 10th Kyu to Hachidan, Shindokan Karate-Do and Shindokan Kobudo, can only be earned through physical gradings/tests. Only these particular Kodansha's, Kudan and Judan, are awarded ranks, and in that, only our Soke and Dai-Soke have had those Dan ranks awarded to them as per our By-Laws.

[Chitsu]

Thank you

Chitsu

[sensei8]

Wouldn't it be great if one day your/mine Sensei said...."Line up wherever you want, just hurry up!" and then we did?

You know what? As a matter of fact....I'm going to do just that tomorrow, 02/08/2010, at the Hombu at each and every class...as an experiment!

Oooo! Now that sounds interesting. Can you post what happened?

Not surprising to me at all, but, NOT one student lined up whereever they wanted to, even after I had completely explained to them at the beginning and at the end of class that I wasn't kidding and that it was perfectly ok to line up anywhere for that Monday and Tuesday. They refused to move from their normal spots in line. I gave them ample amount of time to line up somewhere else. They just looked at me and one another as a calf would look like a strange gate; perplexed and confused. Each and everytime that the command was given during class..."Narande" (Line up) they lined up at their proper place...each time! Never once had I said..."Sei Retsu" ([to] line up [by rank]), they did it anyway.

I even surprised them. They'd be drilling and I'd stop them to show them a fine point of the drill and then I'd yell out loud..."Narande...Ima", right in the middle of a drill, but guess what? They'd still line up at their proper place in line....again!!!!!

I did this exercise/experiment on Monday and Tuesday. Monday had 8 classes and Tuesday had 7 classes; not once did any student take me on my offer. Not even in any of the children classes; that truly shocked me because I thought for sure that the kids would take me up on my offer if for no other reason but because it was different. But...no...not even the kids moved from their normal spot in line.

Why? Was it because it had been drilled into them the proper protocol of lining up? Was it because they had become students of habit? Was it because we're at the Hombu? Was it because they weren't sure if they'd get into trouble or not? Was it because they truly thought I was just kidding?

I don't know. I didn't ask! I'll be asking this Thursday because I'm very curious myself.

[Blade96]

I suppose habits are hard to break lol, Bob-sensei, if our sensei ever told us to Shugo (assemble) in however way we wished, instead of by belt level, I'd still go to the back., as its so ingrained into us now that we do it as if we are like automaton instead of people hehe its so automatic for us. thats why we do it.

Just from the perspective of a student, as it seems to perplex you a little when you did this experiment.

So even if you say it, it'll still be most likely automatic that your students still think this way even when you tell them its ok for such and such a night of training.

and take it as a compliment when even the kids do it, as it shows their discipline and maturity. its even more surprising because - well you know what kids can be like sometimes!

Edited February 10, 2010 by Blade96

[Lupin1]

Maybe if you force them out of their comfort zone a few times and then try it? Tell them one day to line up in reverse order of rank. Then you want it to go green, white, blue, yellow, brown, orange, black. Then to mix the belts up the next day have them line up by height and then by birthday (January first all the way to December at the end). And THEN after mixing them up for awhile tell them they can line up where ever they want and see if you get different results.

[DWx]

Maybe if you force them out of their comfort zone a few times and then try it? Tell them one day to line up in reverse order of rank. Then you want it to go green, white, blue, yellow, brown, orange, black. Then to mix the belts up the next day have them line up by height and then by birthday (January first all the way to December at the end). And THEN after mixing them up for awhile tell them they can line up where ever they want and see if you get different results.

Pretty good ideas. I remember when I was a beginner and at the back of the class, we'd line up and then my instructor would walk around to the back of the class, tell us all to turn around and teach that way. Put a lot of pressure on the lower belts and made sure we weren't copying too much. Still does this sometimes, both from the back and sides.