10,000 kicks: useless or not?

[melfi28]

Many say that learning all the numerous and intricate moves that come with many traditional martial arts is unnecessary, somewhat "Hollywood," and would not be of that much use in an actual fight. They say that if you want to train to not be killed in a fight you should train like the Marine Core, drilling three of four moves over and over until they are so ingrained they are second nature. Most would agree that this method is quick, efficient, and practical. In somewhat of this spirit, Bruce Lee said “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”

My question is why can't the great martial artist be the man who practices each of those 10,000 kicks 10,000 times?

The systems of the traditional martial arts, though they may seem sometimes over the top and counterintuitive, did evolve from practical techniques and because they worked. Yes, at face value and on the surface the practicality of practicing a couple efficient moves may seem better, but if you train hard and spend time in the traditional and understand and make everything in that system muscle memory and second nature, would you not be the better fighter, prepared for anything and everything.

Bruce Lee's own systems, though practical, resemble a traditional martial art.

[WireFrame]

You may be taking the saying a bit literally. The sentiment is about mastering something and being dedicated to it, and not just doing a whole bunch of things just a little bit.

If someone has the dedication to practice a kick 1000 times (to be fair most higher dan grades probably have over their entire lifetime) then it's easy to assume their dedication is such that they would've applied that to every other facet of their training.

[melfi28]

I understand what you're saying and you're right, but I was using the quote just to be clever. My focus is on the "competition" between "practical" and traditional martial arts, saying that though practicing the traditional martial art may be harder, (i.e. practicing the 10,000 kicks each 10,000 times) it will ultimately make you better than settling with the "practical."

[Toptomcat]

That assumes that some of those techniques aren't redundant with others, and that all of them are of equal value. Successfully identify which of them are most effective and efficient while still covering all of the situations you're likely to come across in a confrontation, and you can take all the training time you would have spent on the other nine thousand, nine hundred and eighty kicks and spend it far more productively.

[Lupin1]

I agree with Tomcat. If you're in a real fight, I don't know how much the jump spinning flipping headstand sidekick is going to help you.

[doug_kissaki]

There's a reason that you don't see too many of the crazy acrobatic kicks even in sparring matches let alone real fights. Because they really don't work in most real situations.

Yeah, you could get lucky and distract someone with acrobatics right before your foot takes there head off. But you could get just as lucky taking off your shoe and throwing it.

I agree with TomCat. I suppose you could devote your life to mastering every kind of kick there is, but your training time would serve you much better to work on other things instead. However, if you have the time to master all the kicks, let me know... I'll be first in line to see your movie!

[Toptomcat]

It's worth noting that that many repetitions of a given technique isn't that much, really. Just a few one-and-a-half hour classes focusing on a single technique will get you around a thousand reps: if you're a martial artist working in any kind of competition at a high level, tens of thousands of repetitions of your small handful of favored techniques is less super-impressive and more par for the course.

[Jay]

Bruce Lee had about 5 kicks that he drilled relentlessly.

An accumulation of techniques is pointless.

You don't need that many. you would never be able to have the skill level you could only drilling 5 or so.

[Fearun9033]

I guess what he was trying to say was to not be a "Jack-of-all-Trades, master of none". I think the main thing with mastering so many kicks is that you ultimately don't have time and your average kick becomes weaker than if you focused on it.

As for the flashy moves and all, I used to find my training REALLY boring because all we did was Front Snap Kick, Side Snap Kick, Side Thrust Kick and Roundhouse kick, with the occasional back spin kick.

I, in my early foolish years, complained to my sensei that nothing we did looked "cool". He told me something I would never forget:

Yes, all these moves are nothing but basics. However, once you have mastered these basics, is there really need for anything flashier?

And I find this very true! I mean, if you can masterfully execute a front snap kick and disable your opponent with a pinpoint strike to the solar plexus, why use a triple backflip 360 spin double somersault jump round flying tornado kick? Ok I was exaggerating, but you get the point! If you think about it, these "basic" kicks are quick, powerful and stable; they get the job done! I've spared once with my friend who did Wu Shu. He was very intimidating at first with his butterfly spin kicks and I was taken completely by surprise. But once I got the feel for them, the kicks were pretty ineffective and I could easily throw him off balance.

And don't forget, without setting a good and deep foundation (mastering basics), how would you expect a tall building to be stable?

Hope it helps with your question!

[sperki]

Not to nit-pick, but melfi28, it's the Marine Corps (not the core) but I do appreciate that you capitalized it!