More About My 2nd Kyu

[still kicking]

I thought this belonged here rather than under "Testing, Grading, and Promotions", though of course moderators can move it if that seems fit. As I mentioned under that heading, I recently earned a rank of 2nd Kyu. Thanks for all of the congrats! Of course I was and am happy about it, but it's not that straightforward. For one thing... I had already earned a rank of shodan in the same school, though it was a little more than 20 years ago! When I came back, which was 4 years ago (Jan. '06), I was warmly welcomed and also told that I would have to start from white belt and work my way through the ranks again. This seemed completely reasonable, considering how long I had been gone, but little did I know what I was in for! Things did come back to me pretty quickly, once I was back in reasonably good shape, and I was amazed to realize the strength of muscle memory. However, just as with just about anything, I guess, standards had changed and evolved over all that time. If you watch old tapes of Olympic gymnasts or figure skaters, for example, the champions of 20 or 30 years ago nowadays probably wouldn't even make the team. Everything builds on what went before it. Once breaking the 4 minute mile was a big thing, now it is routine.

Anyway... not only had things tightened up, but now we have to go through 10 ranks of kobudo concurrent with the karate-do promotions, whereas in the old days we hardly even did any weapons. I love weapons, and I'm really glad we do them. The bottom line, though, was that looking back on the past 4 years, I had a really hard time during years 2 and 3 or so. I got really frustrated at being held at the lower ranks for so long, because I felt that my skill and understanding, not to mention previous training and rank, warranted faster promotions. Now I have to admit, which probably is no surprise... sensei was right! She told me that she was keeping me back because wanted me to really perfect the basics rather than getting to higher ranks with some bad habits from the past, i.e. doing things the old way when they had been changed. I'm sure I drove her nuts, but anyway, my point now is that I am really happy to be where I am.

I would also like to say, though, that I wonder how many of you would find this to be easy, or manageable! I think it is different to have an advanced rank in one art and then to start another style and be a white belt, than to be training in exactly the same school, with the chief instructor now being someone who was a student under you in the past. I wanted so much to not care about rank, but it is really hard when in every class it is "line up by rank", and "black belts in front", and there I was way down at the bottom, for a while. Everyone is really "nice", but you can be sure that every single person is very aware if they got a rank a few weeks before someone else, or if ranked the same day, started a few weeks before someone else, and therefore will forever stand to their left. It really gets ridiculous, but that's the way it is!

The other thing that was weird is that this is the first time I caught up with and/or surpassed others who have been training in the current incarnation for many years. The other 2nd kyu adults have been training more than 10 years straight, pretty consistently... and they don't seem particularly clumsy or stupid -- quite the opposite! I was a little worried that they might resent me if I caught up to them, even though they know my story and that I have trained before. Thankfully, that does not seem to be the case, at least not as far as I can tell, and everyone has been very gracious.

Now I am excited about the next phase of my training, honing basics more and more, trying to improve precision, timing, maintain fitness, all of it. I need to really focus on kobudo, and am working on 2 new weapons kata, Tsuken shita haku no sai (sp?), and kaibo Ten no kata.

Well anyway, sorry for the rambling. The main point I have been trying to make... it is quite possible to be very internally motivated, to value the training itself and want to just focus on getting better, and not want to be concerned with rank, but to still have a lot of feelings about it and energy on it. But I think that is partly due to how long our school takes to get people to black belt, which makes it perhaps seem more important than it should be. What it comes down to in the end, though, is that I am now able to see that "sensei is right" (most of the time) and to trust her judgement. Oh yes, and also that it is almost unbelievably fun just to train!

[Lupin1]

I'm in a similar situation right now (only not nearly as extreme as I wasn't a black belt, I haven't been away for as long and my sensei is letting me advance with my abilities-- a perk of our school having no "time in grade" requirements). When I was younger I attended my school for 4 years and was close to getting my 5th kyu. I quit to join a basketball team and two years later I wanted to go back to karate (you know how kids are with their interests-- I was very capricious) so they started me back at white belt and kept me there for an entire year while I worked my way back up to 6th kyu instead of having me buy a new belt every few months. Since they kept me there, I saw all my friends who started at the same time I restarted advancing onto the next belts and wondering why I was still a white belt and some were teasing me about it (of course, it was worth all the teasing when one night I was randomly [to them] promoted from white belt to 6th kyu and was suddenly several belts above them ). Then I got to high school and I had other things I wanted to do with my Tuesday and Thursday nights, so I quit again.

Now eight years later I'm coming back to the same school and I again have a white belt around my waist. This time's a little different in that I remembered things a lot better (funny how I remember things so much better this time after 8 years than I did after just 2 when I was younger. May it has to do with having learned it all twice before). It's not really that big a deal this time because there are no 9th or 8th kyus to tease me (not that adults do that as much). The adult class consists of me, a 4th kyu and a half dozen or so black belts, so whether I'm wearing a white belt or a 6th kyu belt (I keep calling it that because 6th kyu is yellow at my school, which is rare and might confuse people) I'm still the lowest in the class. Plus the adults pay attention more. Those little 9th kyus who were teasing me for being a white belt never seemed to notice that when we split up into groups I went with the 8th or 7th kyus, but the adults know that even though I'm wearing a white belt I'm doing slightly higher level stuff.

And yes, even in those eight years some things have changed. They added a kata, so now in addition to perfecting the kata I already know, I need to learn the new kata before I can get my 6th kyu back. They also changed the ending of one kata I learned, and old habits die hard, so I keep getting yelled at for doing the old ending... I'll get it, though. I've only been there a few months and I can tell right now that although I've still got awhile, it won't take me a whole year this time to get back up to 6th kyu. Maybe a few more months.

[Lupin1]

I thought this was interesting after having this post just this morning. We had a new student tonight. He was in the program when he was younger and he made it all the way to brown belt before going off to college and having to quit and so he's got a white belt now, too. He's been gone almost 20 years, so a lot longer than I have and he remembered as much as I did (well, he knew more forms, he just didn't remember them as well as I remembered my few) and his technique is way better than mine. So now our instructor just seems to be effervescing with pride in the two former students he taught so well that they came back decades later remembering so much. And the poor 4th kyu... He seemed really upset today because he said he thought he was doing so well and then these white belts come in and are better than him (he said. I know I'm not better than him, although this new guy might be) and the instructor had to give him a pep talk and told him not to worry about us, we're just white belts.

[WireFrame]

Wow. I feel for both of you, there seems to be so much more pressure associated with belts and grades where you both train than where I do. I'll happily train with people wearing earlier belts, because no matter how far I get there's still things to learn that even less experienced people may have picked up that I missed, or vice versa.

I went back to training after about 12 years, and was really happy when I surpassed my old grade as a kid but otherwise never gave it another thought.

You shouldn't get so bogged-down with hierarchy. You're just a group of people that train together.

[Lupin1]

Well, there kinda is. Re-reading my posts I think I make it a bigger deal than it is (in the adult class, at least. In the kid's class it was a huge deal-- you know kids). We don't even do the whole "line up by rank" thing in the adult class. We usually line up staggered so newer students stand inbetween black belts so we can glance at them if we get lost and it also helps us increase our power when we're between two black belts using lots of power.

Although our instructor tends to mention it a lot, although the things he says make me want to stay a white belt. Like "I can yell at you for this because you're a green belt. I can't yell at him, he's just a yellow belt." Or when he's looking for an uki and he makes a big deal that he can beat up his brown belts a little bit but he can't do that to his orange belts. So I guess it is sort of a big deal up until black, where he stops talking about rank and starts talking about how long someone's been in the class (when you've been here 25 years like him, I'll expect you to do X. But you've only been here 15). And there's really no "I'm a black belt so you need to respect me" type vibe that I know other schools get. I mean, sure, people get internally competitive naturally, but there's no "I'm better than you so I line up over here" or "you're a blue belt so you need to kneel while I put on my black belt" type hierarchy you get at some schools.

[sensei8]

Put belt rankings, promotions, titles, ettiquette, heirarchy and the like in their proper context; a martial artist will be fine after that. After all, their nothing more than just outer dressing!

Once the above mentioned are placed in their proper context, one will be able to perform as a martial artist is suppose to; TRAIN!!!! Becoming a proponent of positive training, and in that, not being so overwhelmed and/or concerned with the outer dressings because these outer dressings are nothing more than just...stuff.

[still kicking]

Sensei8, of course you are right, and that is the goal, to "just train". It's just that I have this tendency to over analyze things... I can't help it, I am in the field of psychology. I think all of this concern with comparisons to others, who likes who the best, and all of that, is ridiculous, especially in myself. However, I have been thinking that there is something inherently contradictory about using a ranking system, and then expecting people, or yourself, to not compare themselves to others! I love traditional Japanese MA's, partly because of the ritual and aesthetics of it all, and a ranking system is inherently a part of that. I also enjoy having a ladder to climb, so to speak, as a motivator and reward system. But it can really get in the way, too.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and trying to notice in class ways that it comes out. Just last night, we were in an all levels class, that had several brown belts and a larger number of lower ranks. We were doing moving basics across the floor, lined up in 4 rows, with "brown belts in front". The people in the back rows were told to watch us do it first, and try to emulate what they saw. It's not a matter of thinking "I'm so great, watch me", and I was mostly focusing on the feedback I have gotten about things I need to work on and improve, but it's pretty hard to not feel just a little bit proud of being one to emulate as well. But reading back what you are saying, Sensei8, maybe this is OK as well, but it's a matter of proportion. Maybe it's OK if I only feel a tiny bit proud but am mostly focused on improving myself. Anyway, I don't need to worry, that pride might well be knocked out of me on my next journey across the floor, as sensei yells, "keep your front knee out", "faster", "you are dropping your shoulder" etc etc. Either way, it is really fun to train!

[sensei8]

Sensei8, of course you are right, and that is the goal, to "just train". It's just that I have this tendency to over analyze things... I can't help it, I am in the field of psychology. I think all of this concern with comparisons to others, who likes who the best, and all of that, is ridiculous, especially in myself. However, I have been thinking that there is something inherently contradictory about using a ranking system, and then expecting people, or yourself, to not compare themselves to others! I love traditional Japanese MA's, partly because of the ritual and aesthetics of it all, and a ranking system is inherently a part of that. I also enjoy having a ladder to climb, so to speak, as a motivator and reward system. But it can really get in the way, too.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and trying to notice in class ways that it comes out. Just last night, we were in an all levels class, that had several brown belts and a larger number of lower ranks. We were doing moving basics across the floor, lined up in 4 rows, with "brown belts in front". The people in the back rows were told to watch us do it first, and try to emulate what they saw. It's not a matter of thinking "I'm so great, watch me", and I was mostly focusing on the feedback I have gotten about things I need to work on and improve, but it's pretty hard to not feel just a little bit proud of being one to emulate as well. But reading back what you are saying, Sensei8, maybe this is OK as well, but it's a matter of proportion. Maybe it's OK if I only feel a tiny bit proud but am mostly focused on improving myself. Anyway, I don't need to worry, that pride might well be knocked out of me on my next journey across the floor, as sensei yells, "keep your front knee out", "faster", "you are dropping your shoulder" etc etc. Either way, it is really fun to train!

I hear what you're saying, but, you being in the field of psychology, you're more than aware that humans are fallible as to their possible tendencies. We humans are more than capable of worrying about the smallest thing(s) that are truly unimportant.

Repeating what you've said...

I love traditional Japanese MA's, partly because of the ritual and aesthetics of it all, and a ranking system is inherently a part of that. I also enjoy having a ladder to climb, so to speak, as a motivator and reward system. But it can really get in the way, too.

Place all of the "stuff" in their proper context and let them be. They'll [the Stuff] be around for way after we've shed off our mortal coil. "Stuff" can only get in the way, imho, if one allows/permits the "stuff" of the martial arts to get in the way, therefore, don't let 'it' get in the way. The "stuff" serves a purpose whether we agree with them or not, therefore, just do as your sensei/Hombu/etc ask of you because this, right now/today, is the style that you've chosen and the "stuff" is the rage of the page. Besides, to my knowledge, "stuff" hasn't ever truly hurt anybody, so, just place all of the "stuff" in their proper context.

You're doing just fine....just have fun while your training seriously! If one day your Sensei walks out wearing all of the trappings of the "stuff"; just be respectful and give it no second thought!