Abernethy's interpretation of kata segment

[joesteph]

14th to 23rd of May - Canada

From the 14th to the 23rd of May I’ll be teaching a series of seminars in Canada! This will be my 3rd visit to Canada and I’m really looking forward to seeing everyone again. More details will be released soon, but these are the dates and locations: Southern Ontario – May 14-16 / Edmonton – May 17-20 / Calgary – May 21-23. I hope to see you there!

So it seems you won't be able to attend one of Iain Abernethy's seminars, Jeffrey, as I see that you yourself will be teaching. Well, it's a good reason, as you'll be sharing your MA knowledge. I've been in the martial arts for just the past two years, so I've attended only two seminars, the first one in Jeet Kune Do and the second in Soo Bahk Do. Since I'm a single parent, I have to look for what's nearby, as these two were.

I really enjoyed them. I guess seminars re-invigorate interest in your own art (in my case SBD) or one that you've explored (JKD).

[Jeffrey]

14th to 23rd of May - Canada

From the 14th to the 23rd of May I’ll be teaching a series of seminars in Canada! This will be my 3rd visit to Canada and I’m really looking forward to seeing everyone again. More details will be released soon, but these are the dates and locations: Southern Ontario – May 14-16 / Edmonton – May 17-20 / Calgary – May 21-23. I hope to see you there!

So it seems you won't be able to attend one of Iain Abernethy's seminars, Jeffrey, as I see that you yourself will be teaching. Well, it's a good reason, as you'll be sharing your MA knowledge. I've been in the martial arts for just the past two years, so I've attended only two seminars, the first one in Jeet Kune Do and the second in Soo Bahk Do. Since I'm a single parent, I have to look for what's nearby, as these two were.

I really enjoyed them. I guess seminars re-invigorate interest in your own art (in my case SBD) or one that you've explored (JKD).

No I will not be teaching. It was the copy and paste from Ian's site for his visit to Canada. So yes I'm considering attending but teaching is way out of my league. Only a Green belt here so maybe in another 10 years. It should be an interesting clinic. You'll have to let me know how yours goes since you'll be attending first.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Chitsu]

Any of you guys want to fly me over for a seminar I am more than willing.

I am a higher grade in traditional Wado than Mr A, and have been doing it a tad longer also.

Heck, I'll even do it for free.

Chitsu

[Jeffrey]

Haha Chitsu,

If I could I would be more than happy to fly you here. Of course I wouldn't do it during the winter but in the summer. That way I could take you hiking in the mountians. Best work out you'll ever have. You could hold your seminar in the brisk mountian air a few thousand feet higher than normal.

Just to fulfill my own curiosity where do you train?

[Chitsu]

Haha Chitsu,

If I could I would be more than happy to fly you here. Of course I wouldn't do it during the winter but in the summer. That way I could take you hiking in the mountians. Best work out you'll ever have. You could hold your seminar in the brisk mountian air a few thousand feet higher than normal.

Just to fulfill my own curiosity where do you train?

That sounds like my idea of Heaven.

I train in Surrey/Hampshire (southern part of UK) and I teach in London.

Chitsu

[shoshinkan]

I really like Iains work, and whilst im not a 'commercial' martial artist in any way I respect he needs to earn a living.

His work is reccomended to my students, whilst we do very 'different' Ryu his Bunkai is clear, practical and well executed - far better than much other avaliabile material.

He is also seems a very nice chap IMO, I only met him once but am a member of his forum.

Re changing technical aspects of kata to fit Bunkai, well yes it is reverse engineering but what if modern kata was changed before we got it - perhaps for asthetic or sporting reasons, perhaps to fit the 'budo' form, perhaps because one of the previous Masters wanted to change it - but had little practical experience?

The emphasis change to the technical execution Iain shows in his Seisan Bunkai actually fits how our Ryu deliver the kick (we do in Rohai, Passai)much closer than the 'traditonal' modern crescent kick, and I do Seito Matsumura Shorin Ryu as system full of 'old' concepts,

So where to draw the line?

It sure beats the majority of 'Bunkai' worked in the UK during the 80s, 90s and yes is still far better than most people know today, good on him I say.

Other leading Western minds IMO are McCarthy Sensei, Vince Morris Sensei, all have extensive backgrounds and experience and present very good 'Bunkai' IMO, not all of the time but alot of the time.

[tonydee]

This represents the down side of Bunkai-jutsu imo - namely modifying techniques in Kata to so they fit into a convenient form.

Its a kind of reverse engineering - starting with a scenario and working it back to how it could have come out of the Kata. I see little point in that - may as well join a Jujutsu club - they start with a scenario and work forward to a solution that isn't restricted - as a result, they are a lot better at it, than most karate-ka

Don't get me wrong, Kaisetsu, Bunkai - call it what you want is a very important part of your karate kata training, but when you start deviating away from the original form - this is where things get a bit iffy imo.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks this. In the ITF TKD world we've a similar lark going on, and people need to stop wasting their time learning half-baked hapkido moves from people who don't even know them properly - while delivering them from awkward stances and angles just so they very roughly conform to the kata - and actually learn their basic techniques and core applications! The prime advocates tend to be the people whose grip on the subtleties of basic techniques is so slight that they'd run out of things to teach in 6 months, so they wander off into ninja-fantasy land doing bits of anything from the most unlikely positions.

Cheers,

Tony

[bushido_man96]

This represents the down side of Bunkai-jutsu imo - namely modifying techniques in Kata to so they fit into a convenient form.

Its a kind of reverse engineering - starting with a scenario and working it back to how it could have come out of the Kata. I see little point in that - may as well join a Jujutsu club - they start with a scenario and work forward to a solution that isn't restricted - as a result, they are a lot better at it, than most karate-ka

Don't get me wrong, Kaisetsu, Bunkai - call it what you want is a very important part of your karate kata training, but when you start deviating away from the original form - this is where things get a bit iffy imo.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks this. In the ITF TKD world we've a similar lark going on, and people need to stop wasting their time learning half-baked hapkido moves from people who don't even know them properly - while delivering them from awkward stances and angles just so they very roughly conform to the kata - and actually learn their basic techniques and core applications! The prime advocates tend to be the people whose grip on the subtleties of basic techniques is so slight that they'd run out of things to teach in 6 months, so they wander off into ninja-fantasy land doing bits of anything from the most unlikely positions.

Cheers,

Tony

It may be a different than "traditional" approach, but it doesn't mean that it isn't effective, and doesn't lend itself to practical applications. Just a different path.

[joesteph]

I really like Iains work . . .

His work is reccomended to my students, whilst we do very 'different' Ryu his Bunkai is clear, practical and well executed - far better than much other avaliabile material.

It may be a different than "traditional" approach, but it doesn't mean that it isn't effective, and doesn't lend itself to practical applications. Just a different path.

I have great respect for someone who's out there thinking, examining, and sharing. The latest issue of Jissen magazine is available for a free download at Iain Abernethy's website:

http://www.iainabernethy.com/Jissen_Magazine.asp

[DWx]

This represents the down side of Bunkai-jutsu imo - namely modifying techniques in Kata to so they fit into a convenient form.

Its a kind of reverse engineering - starting with a scenario and working it back to how it could have come out of the Kata. I see little point in that - may as well join a Jujutsu club - they start with a scenario and work forward to a solution that isn't restricted - as a result, they are a lot better at it, than most karate-ka

Don't get me wrong, Kaisetsu, Bunkai - call it what you want is a very important part of your karate kata training, but when you start deviating away from the original form - this is where things get a bit iffy imo.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks this. In the ITF TKD world we've a similar lark going on, and people need to stop wasting their time learning half-baked hapkido moves from people who don't even know them properly - while delivering them from awkward stances and angles just so they very roughly conform to the kata - and actually learn their basic techniques and core applications! The prime advocates tend to be the people whose grip on the subtleties of basic techniques is so slight that they'd run out of things to teach in 6 months, so they wander off into ninja-fantasy land doing bits of anything from the most unlikely positions.

Cheers,

Tony

I totally agree with this. It really irks me when people drag out the most ridiculous applications from a simple punch or kick. Gen. Choi didn't create them with hidden meanings behind all the moves and intricate little locks and takedowns from the simplest of punches. No offence to him and the other masters who helped create them, but they weren't that clever. When you're training 1000s of soldiers you don't have time to mess around with hidden applications. Everything's at face value. A low block is just a low block. If you want to learn a certain additional move, go learn it properly, don't try to extract by slightly changing this and moving that. TBH it reminds me of literature in high school, totally ruined poetry and most novels because we were always trying to extract hidden messages and meanings from the smallest of things.