Benefits of the Turning "Corkscrew" Punch

[Lupin1]

I've got another question for you guys. I've studied Isshinryu for years and so when I think of punching, I automatically think the Isshinryu vertical punch. But I've gone to a few "bring a friend day" things with friends from other schools and there I was taught the turning punch. Frankly, I don't see why practically every system but Isshinryu uses the turning punch. It seems slower and weaker (or maybe I'm just not doing it right). What are the benefits of the turning "corkscrew" punch?

[Chitsu]

I've got another question for you guys. I've studied Isshinryu for years and so when I think of punching, I automatically think the Isshinryu vertical punch. But I've gone to a few "bring a friend day" things with friends from other schools and there I was taught the turning punch. Frankly, I don't see why practically every system but Isshinryu uses the turning punch. It seems slower and weaker (or maybe I'm just not doing it right). What are the benefits of the turning "corkscrew" punch?

Hello,

I don't know the first thing about Isshinryu - but sometimes I think its easy to see the "corskscrew" punch as "exclusively" belonging to karate as a result of things like Itosu's pinan kata and the further practice of it in kihon - which is a relatively modern/Japanese inovation.

If however you look at older kata like Naihanchi, Bassai and Wanshu, you can see punches done in a variety of directions - with different fists etc.

Building blocks - maybe?

Chitsu

[Patrick]

I went ahead and gave this it's own thread. Thanks.

Patrick

[Lupin1]

Cool! I didn't know you could do that!

[BDPulver]

If I remember listening to Hanshi Duessel at one of our camps a long time ago. Master Shimibuku adopted the punch we use cause it was stronger and it threw ppl off when you applied it in technique.

Also when the thumb is placed on top it creates a stabilizing joint so that when a isshinryu practioner threw the punch it should always be straight with just the top two knuckles hitting the target only.

Punching a makawara pad this way does show how one can do the punch wrong and right. I've had many a nights with bloody knuckles from right and wrong way.

[Montana]

The "corkscrew" punch basically hurts more when you hit someone in a fleshy area of the body or jaw because it "screws" in somewhat and twists the skin as it does because the twist comes at the very end of the punch and is still "twisting" when it makes impact. It also has to do with positioning of the arm when you punch and if you over-rotate the "screw" you can go actually go around some blocks and still hit your target, which you can't do with the Isshinryu punch.

It's easier to demonstrate than it is to explain.

[Kuma]

The "corkscrew" punch basically hurts more when you hit someone in a fleshy area of the body or jaw because it "screws" in somewhat and twists the skin as it does because the twist comes at the very end of the punch and is still "twisting" when it makes impact. It also has to do with positioning of the arm when you punch and if you over-rotate the "screw" you can go actually go around some blocks and still hit your target, which you can't do with the Isshinryu punch.

It's easier to demonstrate than it is to explain.

Excellent post.

And yes, you will definitely know the difference when you feel it!

[krypto]

I'm curious if it's harder for Isshinryu stylists to get points at multi-style tournament kumite because they use the vertical punch and not the corkscrew punch.

[todome]

The turning of the fist at the end of the punch involves not just the forearm but shoulder muscles as well. Those who favour this technique, myself included, can argue (some more fervently than others)...

1) The rotation fosters a greater range of motion in the shoulder, allowing the rotator cuff and deltoid muscles a more concentrated and forceful contribution to the vector sum of forces.

2) The movement sequence of a rotated punch allows a more efficient path for the contracting muscles to follow due to less force lost to tension caused by early torque.

and

3) At contact the orientation of the fist creates a greater stability along the horizontal plane (do knuckle push-ups both ways for a quick and dirty demonstration) making power in the punch of function of an effective stance than it would be otherwise.

The last point opens a window into why different styles are not necessarily right or wrong about the choices that are made. A style that emphasizes rotation power over connection to a strong base will naturally favour a lateral-fisted punching style.

[Lupin1]

I'm curious if it's harder for Isshinryu stylists to get points at multi-style tournament kumite because they use the vertical punch and not the corkscrew punch.

I've only watched people from my school spar in tournaments a few times, but from what I've seen, it tends to be more of an advantage. The corkscrew punch may be able to twist around blocks a bit better, but the Isshinryu punch is faster and so harder to block in the first place. You can get about three Isshinryu punches into the time space of one corckscrew punch, so if they block the first one, you just go in with a second one and if they block that, the first hand is already recoiled (since it's a snap punch) and you can go in with that again. Throwing mulitple techniques one after the other in quick sequence like that is another thing that characterizes Isshinryu, and the quick, recoiling snap punches help make that posible. Plus there's the fact that people from most other styles have never seen or fought against Isshinryu punches before, so it surprises them the first few times like "woah, where the heck did that come from".

This is all good stuff. Thanks guys. I think I understand the turning punch a lot better now.