Master Shintani videos

[Chitsu]

With all due respect, Chitsu, I don't know if that's a fair statement. Most young men graduating from university Wado clubs in Japan didn't learn kihon kumite including Senseis Shiomitsu and Kiyohisa Hirano (I believe). I'm guessing Hirano didn't know enough about pure Wado even though Otsuka made him in charge of Wado in Hawaii; so perhaps that's why Hirano created his own Wado. I'm not sure if Master Otsuka taught Sensei Shintani those katas or if Master Otsuka required all his black belts to know them. It seems to me though that Shintani tried to incorporate some ideas from kihon kumite into katas like changing some of the morote ukes into nagashi ukes.

You raise an interesting issue here.

I guess Ohtsuka had a balancing act to play, when it came to the disseminating of his art throughout the world in the early stages.

Naturally, he was keen to propagate his Karate - and this is why he dispatched his top students of the time - i.e. the likes of Suzuki, Arakawa, and later Kono, Shiomitsu etc., to Europe / US in the 60's - to promote the art. Some stayed and then others followed.

There is every probability that due to this, these guys had not achieved their peak of understanding and knowledge when they left Japan (remember they were only young) and then, they were going to lands where there were both language and cultural barriers to overcome.

They were thousands of miles away from home, and had only their written notes and memory of what they had been taught to rely on (no video recording / internet to help them back then).

Also, as I said in an earlier post, it is fairly well documented that Ohtsuka's Wado continued to be "refined" - so it is quite apparent where and at what stage these masters left Ohtsukas fold.

I find it unlikely that the likes of Shiomitsu sensei left the shores of Japan without having been taught Kihon Kumite by Ohtuska - but in a way it doesn't really matter, because even if he didn't learn them at the point of leaving university he was obviously taught the principles within, well enough and he certainly knows them (and practices/teaches them) well now.

I guess some of these early Wado sensei were able to/or wanted to stay closer to what Ohtsuka was continuing to refine - whereas others were left a little marooned.

Chitsu

[Chitsu]

Most young men graduating from university Wado clubs in Japan didn't learn kihon kumite including Senseis Shiomitsu...

Where did you get that from?

Chitsu

Others have told me this plus Sensei Shiomitsu said it (sort of) in the below controversial interview as well as others:

Traditional Karate: Is the Wado you teach now different from the

 

early days?

M. Shiomitsu: The Wado that I learned in university was basically

fighting, no technique, it was always fight, fight, fight! I didn't

know so many techniques. When I came here [England] I learned

something from Suzuki Sensei but his style was not really Wado style,

it was a hard way and what I do is a lot softer, like Ohtsuka

Sensei's father did. People think I have changed but I haven't, I

didn't have any experience at that time. I asked Ohtsuka Sensei 2nd

what the Wado style really is, so that I could learn.

Nowhere there does he say he wasn't taught KK.

If you are going to take that view, it suggests he wasn't taught Pinan Kata either?

No doubt, the universities of Japan at the time had something to prove to one and other - and this came in the shape and form of "Shiai".

I bet the battles between universities like the Tokai and Nichidai were legendary.

They also had rival styles to compare to like Shotokan, so what stands out is competition wins - stats win the day in Uni.

Also no doubt – kumite is important to wado as a style – but there is a lot more to it.

Chitsu

[krypto]

Nowhere there does he say he wasn't taught KK.

If you are going to take that view, it suggests he wasn't taught Pinan Kata either?

This was the best I could do for now, but I swear I read somewhere else that Shiomitsu did not learn KK as well as the pinans until he was going to Europe. I'm going to do more digging but when I find it, I'll post it here.

They also had rival styles to compare to like Shotokan, so what stands out is competition wins - stats win the day in Uni.

Also no doubt – kumite is important to wado as a style – but there is a lot more to it.

Chitsu

I'm sure winning at kumite was the most important thing at the time but like you stated before, what's important is that Sensei Shiomitsu did eventually deepen his Wado and has become one of the most sought-after Wado instructors in the world.

[Chitsu]

Found this for you Krypto:

Ten-I

Ten-Tai

Ten-Gi

Chitsu

[Chitsu]

This was the best I could do for now, but I swear I read somewhere else that Shiomitsu did not learn KK as well as the pinans until he was going to Europe. I'm going to do more digging but when I find it, I'll post it here.

Please do, I think it impossible that someone of Shiomitsu sensei's ilk would not know the pinan kata before coming to Europe to teach.

Impossible!!

Chitsu