How long to Sensei?

[still kicking]

Well, I hope this comes across alright. All of our black belt instructors took about 10 years to get to shodan, and have been training and teaching for several to many years past that. Most of our ikkyus have been training steadily for 10 or more years. I have trained a little in a Shotokan school where their shodans only had 3 or 4 years, and the 4th dans had 10 years. Whatever. Personally I think it's silly to worry about all this too much. Mostly we call each other by our first names, except for the chief instructor, who is definitely Sensei!

[JohnASE]

Personally I think it's silly to worry about all this too much.

Exactly! It's great that people are sharing info about what their group does, but I don't think people should say that their way is right and anyone else's is wrong. People should accept that others do things differently, and that their way might actually work for them!

As far as the original post goes, I assume the main question is more about when someone should be considered capable of running a dojo than when they should be called sensei.

Like sensei8, I don't see any reason a 1st degree black belt shouldn't open a school. I've known many who have successfully taught after-school or park and rec programs on their own and even a couple who opened brick and mortar locations. Obviously, a 1st degree black belt can only teach so much, but many kept up their training and have advanced in rank since then. Those who haven't mostly stick to beginner to intermediate programs.

A little off topic, but I've also known a few minors who ran schools. They taught, and their parents helped with the business side of things until they were able to take over themselves. Almost all of them also had the benefit of their instructor's guidance, as sensei8 suggested. Some bought out existing schools, but I think one or two started their own from scratch! It's amazing what truly motivated teenagers can do.

[WuChildNZ]

When I reach 4th Dan, that's when i want to start up a dojo but under my affiliation (IOGKF). I just want to teach because I love it so much, I would also charge very cheaply like $100 NZD a year.

[Dr. Frank]

mudansha- I was responding to your first post in which you said:

"In the SKI system, 5th dan is about the highest a non-japanese person can get to. "

Like I said, bias against Westerners by Japanese associations is well known, but some have risen beyond Godan as you suggested doesn't happen. My current instructor is an 8th and he was promoted by a highly-placed Japanese karateka. The second most senior member of the club is a 7th. It happens, just not very damn often.

I assume you mean Mr. Belardo when you discuss the Yondan in Bakersfield? I agree that he should be higher rank based on his experience, but Sensei Halliburton was also very slow in awarding rank.

I didn't realize it when I was there in the 1970s and 1980s because I had no other experience or knowledge to compare, but I now realize that Robert was VERY slow in making promotions. When I left around 1988 or so nobody in the club had been promoted beyond nidan. Even the talented students with 20 years experience were no higher than second dan.

I think everyone realizes that rank is a totally subjective thing as there are no universal standards. I believe Nakayama (took over the JKA following Funakoshi's death) essentially promoted himself to the upper dan levels. Funakoshi called himself a Godan and said 5th the top level. It was Nakayama who changed it to allow promotion to higher ranks.