How long to Sensei?

[sensei8]

This question is often asked of students, kyu/dan, within the Shindokan Hombu. My answer is this, as crude as it can be.

If you're of legal age to sign contracts/documents and the like, then Shodan works for me. Why? Who am I to tell someone of legal age what they can or can't do? No one! Maturity in all things is desired, but, who's the final authority? Me? No!

The Shindokan Hombu's By-Laws state that an instructor MUST be a Sandan minimum to receive Hombu credentials and the like.

I say, open the dojo as a Shodan, and then, if after one finds themselves way over their heads, seek out their own instructor who has the proven experience/knowledge to properly guide one to success. Opening a dojo is one thing, but, keeping the doors open is another thing.

Impossible? No! Allow me to introduce to you my analogy of this. If I was in the ocean, and I was drowning, I mean I've gone down twice already and I was about to go down for my third and final time, and an inner tube floated by my way and it saved me from drowning; I'd worship an inner tube for the rest of my life!

I just want to learn effective martial arts, whether it's from a Shodan or from a Judan or in between...I JUST WANT TO LEARN!!! If the Shodan can teach effective martial arts, that's first and foremost for me, AND run a Dojo as well; it's just an added plus for me.

Be a Shodan and run the Dojo...it's yours. Get into a bind, then get help from those who've been there before. Never be afraid to ask for help! Here's another analogy that might help.

This guy's walking down a street, when he falls in a hole. The walls are so steep. He can't get out. A doctor passes by, and the guy shouts up "Hey you! Can you help me out?" The doctor writes him a prescription, throws it down the hole and moves on. Then a priest comes along and the guy shouts up "Father, I'm down in this hole, can you help me out?" The priest writes out a prayer, throws it down in the hole and moves on. Then a friend walks by. "Hey Joe, it's me, can you help me out?" And the friend jumps in the hole! Our guy says "What are you doing? Now we're both down here!" and the friend says, "Yeah, but I've been down here before, and I know the way out." Your friend is your sensei or the Hombu or a fellow martial artist and we've been down here before and we know the way out!

Please don't let rank dictate your desires, but, at least try to listen to what some have suggested from all over the world and it's solid advice across the board; be patient and wait to open your dojo when you're a Sandan at least. Ball's in your court to do with as you want!

Edited January 4, 2010 by sensei8

[Rateh]

I became a sensei as a brown belt with 4 years of training. This is because in the school I attended sensei simply was what you called someone who regularly taught a class. For me this was the beginner childrens classes. Since this is my background, to me sensei just means teacher, so anyone who is teaching a martial art would be a sensei in my mind, even if that wasn't their title (Of course I would call them by whatever title was appropriate to them).

Then look up the term "Sempai".

There is only 1 sensei.

Having only one sensei may be the way it works at your school. But for us we did not use the title of sempai, any instructor was a sensei regardless of rank, and class assistants did not hold any title.

[Dr. Frank]

mudansha- Although instances of Japanese bias against Westerners are well known, I would point out that in 2007 the late Robert Halliburton was promoted to 7th Dan in the SKIF association. In my opinion he should have been a 9th considering his ability and 40+ years of serious training and teaching but he had progressed beyond the Godan rank.

On the original question my instructor believes that Sandan is "instructor rank" and members who have attained this rank may be called Sensei.

[mudansha]

mudansha- Although instances of Japanese bias against Westerners are well known, I would point out that in 2007 the late Robert Halliburton was promoted to 7th Dan in the SKIF association. In my opinion he should have been a 9th considering his ability and 40+ years of serious training and teaching but he had progressed beyond the Godan rank.

On the original question my instructor believes that Sandan is "instructor rank" and members who have attained this rank may be called Sensei.

I am quite aware of that fact. My sensei is the most senior student alive who trained under Haliburton sensei and was awarded Yondan by him in the late 80's. Sensei Halliburton was the one to rate him at his current rank about 20 years ago.

Sensei Haliburton is the exception to the rule. Do research on Dennis Loebs. He was Kanazawa's go to guy until Sensei Kwok came along. I have the utmost respect for Kancho, however his tendancy to choose people of Japanese descent over others is proven.

[mudansha]

I became a sensei as a brown belt with 4 years of training. This is because in the school I attended sensei simply was what you called someone who regularly taught a class. For me this was the beginner childrens classes. Since this is my background, to me sensei just means teacher, so anyone who is teaching a martial art would be a sensei in my mind, even if that wasn't their title (Of course I would call them by whatever title was appropriate to them).

Then look up the term "Sempai".

There is only 1 sensei.

Having only one sensei may be the way it works at your school. But for us we did not use the title of sempai, any instructor was a sensei regardless of rank, and class assistants did not hold any title.

What i am referring to is that Sensei means "teacher". Whoever teaching the class is "Sensei" and the senior student, or assistant is the sempai.

[Rateh]

I became a sensei as a brown belt with 4 years of training. This is because in the school I attended sensei simply was what you called someone who regularly taught a class. For me this was the beginner childrens classes. Since this is my background, to me sensei just means teacher, so anyone who is teaching a martial art would be a sensei in my mind, even if that wasn't their title (Of course I would call them by whatever title was appropriate to them).

Then look up the term "Sempai".

There is only 1 sensei.

Having only one sensei may be the way it works at your school. But for us we did not use the title of sempai, any instructor was a sensei regardless of rank, and class assistants did not hold any title.

What i am referring to is that Sensei means "teacher". Whoever teaching the class is "Sensei" and the senior student, or assistant is the sempai.

So there is only one sensei in your school who teaches all of the classes? There are no other instructors who also teach class? (as I did and that was when I was called sensei). When I stated that teaching a class gave someone the title of sensei, I did not mean assisting in the class...otherwise I would have said so. I meant teaching the class as the instructor for that class.

[still kicking]

mudansha wrote:

What i am referring to is that Sensei means "teacher". Whoever teaching the class is "Sensei" and the senior student, or assistant is the sempai.

Rateh wrote:

So there is only one sensei in your school who teaches all of the classes? There are no other instructors who also teach class? (as I did and that was when I was called sensei). When I stated that teaching a class gave someone the title of sensei, I did not mean assisting in the class...otherwise I would have said so. I meant teaching the class as the instructor for that class.

In my school, I teach a beginning class myself, and there I am called sensei, even though I am a brown belt. When I am assisting one of the black belt instructors in one of their classes I am called sempai. I think this makes sense.

[Chitsu]

I think I am right in saying that stricktly speaking, "under one roof" there can be only one sensei.

Instructors teaching in his/her dojo (on his/her behalf) are Senpai - even if they are 3rd dan +.

But I guess schools differ

Chitsu

[mudansha]

So there is only one sensei in your school who teaches all of the classes? There are no other instructors who also teach class? (as I did and that was when I was called sensei). When I stated that teaching a class gave someone the title of sensei, I did not mean assisting in the class...otherwise I would have said so. I meant teaching the class as the instructor for that class.

mudansha wrote:

What i am referring to is that Sensei means "teacher". Whoever teaching the class is "Sensei" and the senior student, or assistant is the sempai.

Rateh wrote:

So there is only one sensei in your school who teaches all of the classes? There are no other instructors who also teach class? (as I did and that was when I was called sensei). When I stated that teaching a class gave someone the title of sensei, I did not mean assisting in the class...otherwise I would have said so. I meant teaching the class as the instructor for that class.

In my school, I teach a beginning class myself, and there I am called sensei, even though I am a brown belt. When I am assisting one of the black belt instructors in one of their classes I am called sempai. I think this makes sense.

This is what I meant. "Sensei" is whoever is teaching the class, whether he be a ikkyu, or a sandan. "Sempai" is the next rank down (the senior student) whether he be rokyu, or a lesser sandan.

[Chuck]

So there is only one sensei in your school who teaches all of the classes? There are no other instructors who also teach class? (as I did and that was when I was called sensei). When I stated that teaching a class gave someone the title of sensei, I did not mean assisting in the class...otherwise I would have said so. I meant teaching the class as the instructor for that class.

mudansha wrote:

What i am referring to is that Sensei means "teacher". Whoever teaching the class is "Sensei" and the senior student, or assistant is the sempai.

Rateh wrote:

So there is only one sensei in your school who teaches all of the classes? There are no other instructors who also teach class? (as I did and that was when I was called sensei). When I stated that teaching a class gave someone the title of sensei, I did not mean assisting in the class...otherwise I would have said so. I meant teaching the class as the instructor for that class.

In my school, I teach a beginning class myself, and there I am called sensei, even though I am a brown belt. When I am assisting one of the black belt instructors in one of their classes I am called sempai. I think this makes sense.

This is what I meant. "Sensei" is whoever is teaching the class, whether he be a ikkyu, or a sandan. "Sempai" is the next rank down (the senior student) whether he be rokyu, or a lesser sandan.

In our school (JKA-Shotokan), a Sensei needs to be at least 4th dan Black Belt.

A sempai (senior ranked students i.e 1st kyu, shodan, nidan, sandan) can run classes, but they are never called sensei (that title is only earned through experience/rank).

Usullay if a school has several Senseis (4th dans), the top sensei is SHIHAN (Teacher of teachers).