No Tests

[Lupin1]

I've been testing that way since about 1983 or so, but I don't hand anybody their belt, I hand them a rank certificate instead and make them get their own belt.

Hahaha. Well, they hand out the belts in the kids' class (the kids have to bring in money for them at the next class, of course-- they aren't free), but I don't know what they do in the adult class. It's easy to keep a lot of kid-sized belts around because there's a lot of kids in the program. There aren't too many adults and the majority of the adults are black belts, so I doubt they keep too many size 5 or 6 belts in the closet...

[usc96]

One benefit of testing for each belt is it prepares you for the one day when you take your black belt test. In our school, the underbelt tests generally take 1.5 to 2 hours. The black belt test is similar in that we do all the material we've learned up to that point, but it takes four hours.

[Blade96]

I think yes, people may have an off day, but being able to execute accurate and powerful techniques under pressure is also part of being able to defend yourself in my opinion.

I can see this working well in small independent clubs, but ones that are part of a much larger organisation wouldn't use it. To be honest, I like gradings. At my club we all go for a drink afterwards to celebrate!

i agree about pressure! Karate - do is way of life and just like life it should have pressure. I like the idea of test and gradings too. and should be able to do things under pressure.

My sensei told me my 8th kyu grading is in about a month. I dont think it can be worse than competition - where I preformed in front of a lot of strangers - in testing i do it in front of all the black belts and senseis. and since i know all of them ........ *shrugs* i find competition has a bit more pressure, also there you only get one chance to do stuff well sae as a test but at least i do it in front of people i know.

"I've been testing that way since about 1983 or so, but I don't hand anybody their belt, I hand them a rank certificate instead and make them get their own belt."

Montana thats how it works in our association. Only the black belts have the honor of being given they're belt - the rest of us have to buy our own if we pass the gradings.

[Throwdown0850]

I think yes, people may have an off day, but being able to execute accurate and powerful techniques under pressure is also part of being able to defend yourself in my opinion.

I can see this working well in small independent clubs, but ones that are part of a much larger organisation wouldn't use it. To be honest, I like gradings. At my club we all go for a drink afterwards to celebrate!

i agree about pressure! Karate - do is way of life and just like life it should have pressure. I like the idea of test and gradings too. and should be able to do things under pressure.

My sensei told me my 8th kyu grading is in about a month. I dont think it can be worse than competition - where I preformed in front of a lot of strangers - in testing i do it in front of all the black belts and senseis. and since i know all of them ........ *shrugs* i find competition has a bit more pressure, also there you only get one chance to do stuff well sae as a test but at least i do it in front of people i know.

"I've been testing that way since about 1983 or so, but I don't hand anybody their belt, I hand them a rank certificate instead and make them get their own belt."

Montana thats how it works in our association. Only the black belts have the honor of being given they're belt - the rest of us have to buy our own if we pass the gradings.

So you pay a monthly fee and you also have to pay for your belt when you pass??

[Blade96]

well I am not exactly sure thats how it works, but i just know that only the black belts are given their belts by the senseis when they first make Sho Dan (and Ni Dan and every level thereafter) and the us Kyu's (when i make 8th shortly) have to go get our belts.

[mr_obvious]

Lupin and Montana: Your posts particularly resonate with me. Just to play Devil's Advocate -- going solely with a "Spontaneous Promotion" convention, there is the possibility for some hurt feelings. For instance, say student "X" and student "Y" both start at the same time, never miss a class, but..... Student "X" gets promoted before student "Y." Having a test is a defined line-in-the-sand. Student "X" and "Y" have to cross it to move on.

That said, the adults at my school maintain a fairly lackadaisical attitude about the belt / rank / promotion thing; we're all there to train. Our school is a traditional testing school, but I think we'd all be ok with the "Spontaneous Promotion" concept. That said, having to test -- and be invited to test -- my only gripe is a lack of feedback from our instructors; what needs work in order to test. It's pretty much a "when you're ready, you're ready" mentality.

The kids on the other hand...... I almost think the spontaneous promotion idea would be a good thing. Really frustrating hearing the "When can I test? Huh, huh? When can I test?!?" broken record. It got so bad, our instructors forbade students to ask. So then, instead their parents suck up the first 10 minutes of the adult class asking "When can my kid test? What to they need to do? What belt is next? Blah, blah, blah....."

[Montana]

The kids on the other hand...... I almost think the spontaneous promotion idea would be a good thing. Really frustrating hearing the "When can I test? Huh, huh? When can I test?!?" broken record. It got so bad, our instructors forbade students to ask. So then, instead their parents suck up the first 10 minutes of the adult class asking "When can my kid test? What to they need to do? What belt is next? Blah, blah, blah....."

My students and parents know me well enough that they (or their child) will get a promotion when they are ready for it...not before. I have one adult that has been on the same brown belt (ikkyu) for over 8 years and should be a Nidan by now. He's probably one of the hardest workers with the best attendance record in the dojo..but he just has these two things he has problems with...getting his katas right and his control. He, and everybody else in the class, knows where they're at and what they need to improve or know before advancing to the next belt. I make that very clear to them frequently.

[mr_obvious]

My students and parents know me well enough that they (or their child) will get a promotion when they are ready for it...not before.

I should say....it's kind of that way where I train, for the more experienced kids anyway (who train in the Adult class, BTW).

However, a sad sign of the times.....the vast majority of the young'uns who train at my school, are beginners (8 kyu or lower). So neither them, nor their parents have been conditioned yet. Complicating matters, my school has a reputation for excruciatingly slow promotion rates. If you're there to train, who cares?!?

So, of course, in these economic times.... I guess all that matters for kids is being able to say "I'm a belt in Karate!" to their friends at school. And when they don't get there fast enough, their parents feel like value for money isn't there, and switch to one of the area's belt factories.

But in that window of time at my school, we hear the broken record "When can I [my child] test?!?" bleeding into the beginning of the adult class.

*steps off soapbox*

[Lupin1]

So, of course, in these economic times.... I guess all that matters for kids is being able to say "I'm a belt in Karate!" to their friends at school. And when they don't get there fast enough, their parents feel like value for money isn't there, and switch to one of the area's belt factories.

My school has actually very recently (as in the last few weeks) given into that pressure. Since I started (15 years ago-- am I that old already?) we've always had a reputation for having a very slow promotion rate for kids (7-9 years average to BB, so since most kids started around 8 years old, they'd usually get it between 15 and 17 [though from what I've seen it's usually closer to 17]). Then a few months ago the instructors decided to add three degrees of junior black belt to let the kids advance quicker. They told me it was because there are so many McDojos in town who are giving kids their black belts so young and all of our students' friends are getting their black belts while they're only like 5th or 6th kyu and our students are better. So a few weeks ago they did a "mass promotion" type thing the class before Christmas (they told the kids it was a Christmas present ). The class only had white belts (9th kyu) and yellow belts (6th kyu) for some odd reason, so they just moved all the white belts up to purple belt (8th kyu) and all the yellow belts up to green belt (4th kyu). And the adult program is staying exactly the same so an adult black belt really will be worth more than a junior black belt because the adults will know more by the time they test for adult black belt. So the junior black belts will be learning the same stuff adult brown belts are learning and by the time they get their full black belt, they'll be caught up to the adult black belt standards. I like that. It gives junior black belts something to do besides just waiting until they turn 16 to advance.

But yeah, back to the original subject, I don't think not having tests stops students from bothering the teacher about when they're going to advance. It's just instead of asking "when can I test" they ask "how long 'til I get my orange belt". Of course, our teacher just says something along the lines of "if you think you're ready to move on, you're not. When you stop asking me, I'll start considering it".