Using the Title "master"

[Ichi_Geki]

At what dan level do you think it is appropriate to call a teacher a master?...I know many schools including Kajukenpo, Oh Do Kwan, Song Ahm, and Tang Soo do, allow their fourth degrees to be called master. I dont believe that a fourth degree has enough experience to be called master.

What are your opinions kind people?

[SenseiJ]

If you adhere to the system implemented by the Dai Nippon Butokukai, 6th Dan would be the first level one could be considered a master and would be awarded the formal title of Renshi. Here is a link to an article that does a pretty good job of explaining the grading and ranking system used in Goju.

http://www.gojuryu.net/articles.php?article_id=43

[Ichi_Geki]

Ahh yes very good. I knew about this one as well. In my style we use 6th dan as renshi, 8th as shihan and 10th as Hanshi, So mine is similar to Goju Ryu also.

[KarateGeorge]

In my school's system, we'll use 3rd as Sensei, 5th as Shihan, 8th as Master, and 10th would be called Grandmaster.

[SenseiJ]

Unfortunately there is a very common misunderstanding in the west when it comes to rank and titles in traditional Okinawan Karate. This is the way I was taught and read in my research. Sensei is the highest and most honorable title that one can hold and is usually the head of the dojo. Shihan is a title used to refer to the head of an associtation or style. For example I call my instructor Sensei and I call his instructor Shihan because he is the head of our association. He would not consider it an insult if I called him Sensei. When it comes to the titles of Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi this are more of a teaching rank to separate the different master instructor levels. An equivalant would be Bachelor Degree, Master Degree or a Doctorate. These are ranks not titles. A person named Dave should not be called Renshi Dave, He should be called Sensei or Shihan depending on his position within an organization.

I do not mean to mean to offend anyone with this post, just trying to helo clarify proper use of rank and title as I understand it to be. I do not consider myself the foremost authority on the subject. I was recently promoted to Rokudan and given the rank of Renshi, however I feel that I am far from being a "master".

[Ichi_Geki]

Unfortunately there is a very common misunderstanding in the west when it comes to rank and titles in traditional Okinawan Karate. This is the way I was taught and read in my research. Sensei is the highest and most honorable title that one can hold and is usually the head of the dojo. Shihan is a title used to refer to the head of an associtation or style. For example I call my instructor Sensei and I call his instructor Shihan because he is the head of our association. He would not consider it an insult if I called him Sensei. When it comes to the titles of Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi this are more of a teaching rank to separate the different master instructor levels. An equivalant would be Bachelor Degree, Master Degree or a Doctorate. These are ranks not titles. A person named Dave should not be called Renshi Dave, He should be called Sensei or Shihan depending on his position within an organization.

I do not mean to mean to offend anyone with this post, just trying to helo clarify proper use of rank and title as I understand it to be. I do not consider myself the foremost authority on the subject. I was recently promoted to Rokudan and given the rank of Renshi, however I feel that I am far from being a "master".

So of course Sensei of a college classroom would not be equivalent to sensei in a dojo though, right?...Or would it?...

because from translation i get sensei meaning "to come before"

Im just trying to get more clarity so I ask alot of questions haha.

[SenseiJ]

I have not had the fortune to visit and train in Okinawa, yet. I have always thought that Sensei is the English equivant of teacher. Here is the link to the wikipedia entry for Sensei.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensei

Maybe someone who has lived or trained in Okinawa or Japan can confirm if this is the correct translation.

Nothing wrong with asking questions, it is how we learn. Trying to answer questions is just as enlighting as asking them.

[Ichi_Geki]

I pulled this from that wikipedia article...

The word is also used to show respect to someone who has achieved a certain level of mastery in an art form or some other skill: accomplished novelists, musicians, and artists are addressed with the title in this way; for example, Japanese manga fans refer to manga artist Osamu Tezuka as "Tezuka-sensei." Sensei is also one of the common Japanese martial arts titles.

And yes I agree...we cannot learn if we do not ask, and those that dont know can always wiki...haha.

[The BB of C]

I usually refer to anyone over fifth degree as a master and anyone at the top rank of their style (style - not system - style) as grand master.

[SenseiJ]

I agree with you bb. I have been taught that 5th dan is the first "master" level and can be awarded the teaching rank of Renshi. This usually happens when they are the head of a school (Kancho).