What Makes a Martial Artist Good

[Jay]

I was thinking the other day about how great martial artists get to be so good. I have always been of the opinion that the martial artist is more important than the style or sect from which they come. There are of course some superior tactics and strategy's that can be employed but these can generally be used in every martial art. There are also better ways of striking in some martial arts than others, when you consider their application to sparring situations, and the same with some others when you consider self defense applications. Of course all will work with the correct timing and distance but there are better ways. For instance some styles techniques will be less telegraphic than others some will have more power due to the way it is delivered.

In essence though a martial artists ability comes not from the techniques of the style but his ability to add his own attributes to the technique to make it better. Thus in my opinion a martial artist can gain more from the development of attributes than from the accumulation of techniques.

There are certain attributes that are absolutely key to the efficiency of a martial artist.

Here is a short list of what I think is important.

My number one key attribute that a martial artist must have is perceptual speed. If you know what the opponent is going to do then you have already won the battle. Now this is very hard to achieve. You must be able to pick up on all the subtle movements of the opponent.

My second attribute is mechanical speed. The martial artist must have enough speed to hit the opponent when he has recognized his intentions if he does not he is liable to get hit.

Distance and timing are also very important you must be able to judge your distance and timing so that a hit is possible.

A limited selection of weapons is also important, training should consist of a few techniques done to a very high standard through repetition. These techniques should have enough variations so that all possible angles and scenarios can be covered. More weapons= more choices= slower reaction time.

Power is another attribute than one must develop. This is why strength training is so important more strength=more power potentially.

You must also know all styles weaknesses and strengths including your own. Thus should you have to fight or spar with them then you will know what tactics to use against their preferred attacks.

Thus what are you opinions on what makes a martial artist good and what attributed do you think they should have and how to develop them?

[bushido_man96]

I think that you've got a nice list to start with. But some things people have, some people can get, and others are tough to train.

The gift of speed is something that can be a boon to a fighter. Bruce Lee is a prime example. But, something that Bruce also had, that more people can have, is his hard work ethic. That guy was a genetically gifted human being, but he complemented it with a fierce drive (or obsession, maybe?) to be better the next day than he was the day before.

So, I would have to put the desire to work hard close to the top of the list.

[RichardZ]

I was thinking the other day about how great martial artists get to be so good. I have always been of the opinion that the martial artist is more important than the style or sect from which they come.

Saying that the martial artist is more important than the style, is like saying that the brain is the most important part of the body. There is a old humor tale of "the most important part of the body". Where certain body parts claim which is the most important part.

In short, it is a matter of importance as it is a matter of harmony and/or unity with the artists and the art.

There are of course some superior tactics and strategy's that can be employed but these can generally be used in every martial art. There are also better ways of striking in some martial arts than others, when you consider their application to sparring situations, and the same with some others when you consider self defense applications. Of course all will work with the correct timing and distance but there are better ways. For instance some styles techniques will be less telegraphic than others some will have more power due to the way it is delivered.

Not sure what you are stating here. The mechanics of the body is the same for each individual. In the example of power is not only from some type og training, but also from the individual. Rocky Marciano, Mike Tyson, and Bruce Lee comes to mind

In essence though a martial artists ability comes not from the techniques of the style but his ability to add his own attributes to the technique to make it better. Thus in my opinion a martial artist can gain more from the development of attributes than from the accumulation of techniques.

It has to come first from a style, as this is the foundation, the fire to heat the metal, (the martial artist), along with other things like water and hammering (other factors-aka methods). in other owrds, devlopmet of attributes, or the metal, cannot form by itself without the aid of forging

There are certain attributes that are absolutely key to the efficiency of a martial artist.

As per the above of metallergy

My number one key attribute that a martial artist must have is perceptual speed. If you know what the opponent is going to do then you have already won the battle. Now this is very hard to achieve. You must be able to pick up on all the subtle movements of the opponent.

Perceptual speed is not probable as one will first need to have a mental recognition of how he is in said situation, or the prevention of.

My second attribute is mechanical speed. The martial artist must have enough speed to hit the opponent when he has recognized his intentions if he does not he is liable to get hit.

Speed is not key, as many who have speed, lack focus and power from being too fast.

Distance and timing are also very important you must be able to judge your distance and timing so that a hit is possible.

Agreed

A limited selection of weapons is also important, training should consist of a few techniques done to a very high standard through repetition. These techniques should have enough variations so that all possible angles and scenarios can be covered. More weapons= more choices= slower reaction time.

The application of repetition is neccesary, but this depends on the type of iroutines, if beneficial.

Power is another attribute than one must develop. This is why strength training is so important more strength=more power potentially.

Strength training isnt the only factor or method to develop power.

You must also know all styles weaknesses and strengths including your own. Thus should you have to fight or spar with them then you will know what tactics to use against their preferred attacks.

not so. One can understand many strengths and weaknesses, but the ultimate test is not from these, but upon the different types of opponents to which one may never have time to know.

Thus what are you opinions on what makes a martial artist good and what attributed do you think they should have and how to develop them?

[Jay]

I think that you've got a nice list to start with. But some things people have, some people can get, and others are tough to train.

The gift of speed is something that can be a boon to a fighter. Bruce Lee is a prime example. But, something that Bruce also had, that more people can have, is his hard work ethic. That guy was a genetically gifted human being, but he complemented it with a fierce drive (or obsession, maybe?) to be better the next day than he was the day before.

So, I would have to put the desire to work hard close to the top of the list.

Work ethic is a very good one actually. Maybe the most important because without it you will get nowhere. Its interesting you say he was genetically gifted I have only ever seen one martial artist that actually comes close to his speed which of course I have only seen on film. Even lightweight boxers are nowhere near and they train very very hard.

[Jay]

Saying that the martial artist is more important than the style, is like saying that the brain is the most important part of the body. There is a old humor tale of "the most important part of the body". Where certain body parts claim which is the most important part.

I don't think this is actually a good analogy to make. They are mechanical needs of the system. The martial artist should not be part of the style. He should only root himself in it. Then he can use what he likes. You chose the techniques you like thus not restricting yourself to the system. Very JKD argument orientated but nevertheless it should be the same in all arts

Not sure what you are stating here. The mechanics of the body is the same for each individual. In the example of power is not only from some type og training, but also from the individual. Rocky Marciano, Mike Tyson, and Bruce Lee comes to mind

The mechanics of the body are the same but the way you use the body is different. For example a Cross in boxing and a reverse punch in karate. Similar but different. The little things add up

Strength training isnt the only factor or method to develop power.

No but it is one of the most effective ways

not so. One can understand many strengths and weaknesses, but the ultimate test is not from these, but upon the different types of opponents to which one may never have time to know.

Very true but in the situation of a fight against another style if you know the style you know what weapons they are likely to use. For example I will use karate again as I know it well. From range a karate person is likely to Roundhouse of Side kick to close the gap. I can anticipate this. I also know a tradition karate person is unlikely to hook punch for instance.

Of course you still have to be aware and its a slippery slope if you try and go into an outcome with a prediction you should react. If you know how they deliver the technique you can tell what is coming.

[tonydee]

Off the top of my head in 15 minutes:

- discipline and determination to study/practice hard

- an eager and analytical mind to experiment, recognise, deduce and weigh different concepts and understand what can work and why, and what doesn't work and why, creating a positive feedback cycle of refinement in their abilities: this applies universally - particular techniques, training exercises and equipment, strategies and tactics, psychology of self and opponent etc.

- from that: an understanding of the core movement potentials of the human body, as from that they can understand the relative offensive threats and defensive potential of different stances in static positions and dynamic movement, and they move towards transcending the very potential to be surprised by techniques of an unfamiliar art or fighter

- building on that knowledge of the opponent's / opponents' potential movements, an ability to recognise and anticipate commitment to particular movements, or that the opponent won't move to make some adequate defense if attacked in a certain way

- spatial awareness and timing to utilise those insights

- brute strength and speed is less important than moving in the right direction at the right time, flowing into a position that increasingly compromises the opponent

- untelegraphed movement is very important, which comes from relaxation/explosiveness, good posture and alignment of mass around which attacking limbs move, isolation of necessary movement from extraneous etc.

- minimalism, especially in flowing from defense to offense: defensive moves should compromise the opponent's ability to keep attacking while preparing oneself for a counter that the opponent just won't be positioned to counter

- accuracy and/or power: either is enough to ensure a strike is effective

Addressing your list:

My number one key attribute that a martial artist must have is perceptual speed. If you know what the opponent is going to do then you have already won the battle. Now this is very hard to achieve. You must be able to pick up on all the subtle movements of the opponent.

An efficacious level can be obtained simply by combining good distancing, posture, and stance (including guarding position), such that the opponent needs to move more to find a plausible line of attack. The insights into movement potentials discussed above are essential for this, as they separate the noise from the signal, such that a pure strong signal is distilled from the important aspects of the opponent's / opponents' movement.

My second attribute is mechanical speed. The martial artist must have enough speed to hit the opponent when he has recognized his intentions if he does not he is liable to get hit.

Speed is important, but even a slower opponent can score via good timing, disguise, feints, evolving techniques in real time to exploit the attempted defense. In fact, one of the developmental exercises I like to encourage seniors to adopt when sparring juniors is to go as slow as possible, making as little movement as possible, while outclassing an opponent. This makes you less dependent on speed, and move aware of timing and positioning. Other times I concentrate 100% on untelegraphed, explosive movement, so that I can combine both elements if need be.

Distance and timing are also very important you must be able to judge your distance and timing so that a hit is possible.

Definitely. Footwork is a big part of this....

A limited selection of weapons is also important, training should consist of a few techniques done to a very high standard through repetition. These techniques should have enough variations so that all possible angles and scenarios can be covered. More weapons= more choices= slower reaction time.

Don't agree at all. Agree it's important to understand the type of threat or opportunity you're dealing with, and the react quickly. With experience and options, you find yourself integrating your defensive movements with a larger strategy, which is harder if you're limiting the variety of responses you'll employ. As your ability to recognise openings in the opponent's defenses increases, you're increasingly setting them up deliberately, and free to choose a surprising or specialised tool to attack them with. It becomes totally automatic, and is preferable to not having an ideal tool for each opportunity. Defensively, a thorough understanding of the pros and cons of each movement makes it easy to select an appropriate one in real time. For example: an inner forearm block is useful when withdrawing an extended arm for a late block of a close-quarter attack, and keeping the elbows in closer to protect the ribs or set up an upward elbow; while an outer-forearm block is appropriate for blocking further from your own body, and leads more naturally into a counter jab or grasp, or sideways elbow. Such seemingly redundant techniques (one WTF taekwondo assistant instructor I met had never heard of an inner forearm block, though it appears in the old Chang Hon pattern for 9th kyup) can be instantly selected based on particular needs.

Power is another attribute than one must develop. This is why strength training is so important more strength=more power potentially.

Depends what you call strength training. The strength to hit hard comes from good body mechanics, and that should be trained. Weight lifting for building big triceps, biceps, pectorals or something is almost irrelevant to martial arts... you'll get enough strength in those parts of the body just from hitting things determinedly hard.

You must also know all styles weaknesses and strengths including your own. Thus should you have to fight or spar with them then you will know what tactics to use against their preferred attacks.

Not quite: pigeon-holing people into a "this-style" person and a "that-style" person - each to be fought accordingly - is setting yourself up to be surprised by techniques outside that style. The general awareness of human potential discussed above transcends this. Despite saying that, I agree that in practice you can and sometimes must (if the fight is so evenly matched or weighed in their favour that you're prepared to gamble a bit) use specific expectations to guide your fighting.

Cheers,

Tony

[sensei8]

Well...as wishy washy as this sounds...My students make me good!

A good martial artist has the ability to see the Yin within the Yang and the Yang within the Yin. My students help me to see that both the Yin and the Yang are seperate although interwined because one can't be without the other.

A martial artist learns to accept life in it’s totality with it’s ‘advantages’ and ‘disadvantages’. Aside from the skills of self defence, Martial arts paves the road to becoming a better person.

[bushido_man96]

I do agree that strength training can be a boon to any physical endeavor.

[sperki]

Free time! Between work, school, chores around the house, and the rest of daily living, it's hard to devote the time to training each week that I would like.

[RichardZ]

I do agree that strength training can be a boon to any physical endeavor.

Kinda goes against the idea of many who think martial arts was created for weaker persons against stronger ones.