MA vs General strength

[sensei8]

David will always beat Goliath, not with strength, but, a well applied technique(s)!

David didnt beat Goliath with muscle to muscle, he had a long distance weapon.

What id Goliath had a bow and arrow, thus having better distance than david? It was like a BB gun and a musket. No comparison upon man verese man. the btter weapon is how David won along with Goliath's complacency.

Strength isn't only physical; using what works, now that's true strength.

David beat Goliath to the punch! David used his weapon before Goliath had a chance to use his. Way to go David!

[JusticeZero]

There's a lot of ways of using strength more efficiently - far more efficiently - as well as shifting the power demands from 'how much can my arm muscles move' to 'how much can my abs and leg muscles move', 'how much recoil can my skeleton, braced, resist' and 'How much does almost my entire body weigh?'

If you are practicing effectively, then you are working how to do at least some aspects of those, and should be on a much larger scale than the person who only lifts weights. Both together of course are more optimal.

[ShoriKid]

Will size and strength matter for a women against a guy?

As much as any other time. While technique over comes strength, every pound of muscle you give up requires a greater gap of skill than you otherwise need. Some techniques require a close matching physically to have good chances of working. Others work better against people who hold a physical edge. They work even better when that gap isn't there though.

A newly minted black belt asked me after training one night how important strength was in a fight. I told him that for ever pound of muscle he gave up in a fight, he had to have an exponential amount of skill to over come that. If you make it like a mathmatical equation, for ever 1M(muscle) you give up you need 2S(skill) to over come that.

So, M=muscle, S=Skill, F=Fighting ability, then M(2)+S=F. Not precise, but it carries the point.

To use an MMA example, Brock Lesnar has 4 MMA fights. He's about 290+/- pounds at fight time. Randy Coulture is 220lbs and has about 26 fights professionally. Both are highly decorated as amature wrestlers. Randy has far more skill in submissions, submission defense, striking and clinch work. A massive reach and power advantage carried Brock to victory over Randy despite the skill difference. Same with Frank Mir. He had every advantage in skill he could have had other than wrestling. Mir lost in large part due to the size/strength difference. Without that advantage, Mir's superior grappling/submission base should have won the fight, if not made it much more competitive.

To me that points to the importance of training attributes along with your techniques.

[tallgeese]

Very well put ShoriKid.

[JusticeZero]

Seems that strength and mass matter more in ground-wrestling than in standup, though it does matter everywhere. Tactical considerations also matter, and those are very hard to show 'in the ring'. You can get very little leverage against an opponent's mind in a judged and ruled duel.

[bushido_man96]

Will size and strength matter for a women against a guy?

Yes, it will be a factor, and it is important to make sure that women understand this. They will have to combat it. There is a reason why professional fighters have to adhere to weight classes.

Size and strength are factors that should be taken into consideration in confrontations. They shouldn't be dwelled upon, but they are important because they are things you can usually readily recognize, and thus account for before you even come to blows.

As for the OP, wrist locks and the like are tricky at times. The less compliant that one is, the more difficult the lock will be. Like TG mentions, if it isn't working, move to something else. A wrist lock should be applied fast, and then the person further restrained, knocked out, or whatever. Don't expect to just be able to hold it there indefinitely.

[The BB of C]

Speed helps a lot in not only generating strength but overcoming it as well. As Sensei8 said earlier "David beat Goliath to the punch." Typically to do that you not only have to move first but be faster. Also, simple physics come into play the faster you are. Speed = Mass.

To give some examples of this, I'll use my sensei and one of his other black belts. My sensei is about my size and weight. The black belt (named Don) is about six-foot-two and 150 pounds. Which is between 40 and 60 pounds lighter than my sensei and I. Both of them strike really fast when they strike. Don has hit me with a backfist so fast that I felt his knuckles through his eight ounce gloves and as far as strength generated through it - it feels like being hit by a haymaker from a boxer. My sensei does the same thing.

I will also use Sensei and myself as an example of how far good striking technique will take you despite size and strength difference. I am 190 pounds. A good friend of mine is 240. Between his abs and pecks alone he probably has about 20 pounds of muscle. With a good Isshin-Ryu or Wing Chun straight punch, I can bite through all of that and make him feel my fist on his kidneys (figuratively speaking).

The same thing can also be applied to grappling. How many people here have seen a 130 pound man tap out a 220 pound man in a BJJ roll? I've seen both of my brothers (who are the same size) do it to two different people.

That is what I think of strength advantage when strength advantage is alone.

[RichardZ]

Will size and strength matter for a women against a guy?

As much as any other time. While technique over comes strength, every pound of muscle you give up requires a greater gap of skill than you otherwise need. Some techniques require a close matching physically to have good chances of working. Others work better against people who hold a physical edge. They work even better when that gap isn't there though.

A newly minted black belt asked me after training one night how important strength was in a fight. I told him that for ever pound of muscle he gave up in a fight, he had to have an exponential amount of skill to over come that. If you make it like a mathmatical equation, for ever 1M(muscle) you give up you need 2S(skill) to over come that.

So, M=muscle, S=Skill, F=Fighting ability, then M(2)+S=F. Not precise, but it carries the point.

To use an MMA example, Brock Lesnar has 4 MMA fights. He's about 290+/- pounds at fight time. Randy Coulture is 220lbs and has about 26 fights professionally. Both are highly decorated as amature wrestlers. Randy has far more skill in submissions, submission defense, striking and clinch work. A massive reach and power advantage carried Brock to victory over Randy despite the skill difference. Same with Frank Mir. He had every advantage in skill he could have had other than wrestling. Mir lost in large part due to the size/strength difference. Without that advantage, Mir's superior grappling/submission base should have won the fight, if not made it much more competitive.

To me that points to the importance of training attributes along with your techniques.

Ah! According to this, it seems muscle is needed 2x more than skill per ratio. therefor muscle is twice as important.

So therefore, if you have 2x skill and 1x muscle, hmmmn

What if you had 3x muscle going against someone with 1x skill?

[RichardZ]

I think the muscle and skill equatons lacks another factor - surprise

[bushido_man96]

Surprise really doesn't figure into the power equation, though. It does figure into other factors in the outcome of a conflict, though.