MA vs General strength

[TokyoSuitsMe]

I often wonder if some of the stuff we get taught in class would actually work if your attacker was a lot stronger than you are.

For instance, sensei might demonstrate a hand twist in class and against the other women (and men that seem to play along and pretend I've done it right ) I can see how it would work.

But when I get home, I 'practice' on my husband (he loves it really) and it just doesn't work because he's much stronger than I am.

Sensei always says it's technique that matters and not strength but sometimes, strength must come into it, surely?

[sensei8]

The martial arts is about adapting to our ever changing situation(s). When something is attempted against an attacker and that one thing tried doesn't work, well, go to something else.

If someone physically stronger than you remember this one thing. Joints/bones GIVE; they break or crack!

Leverage and the like will beat over strength. Strength works but one properly applied technique(s) weakens the strength dramatically.

In the martial arts as in many other things in life, David will always beat Goliath, not with strength, but, a well applied technique(s)!

[Sokusen]

You are always going to have those people who can power out of things just due to there size. But you really can't base whether a technique works or not on the extremes. I mean really how many power lifters or PCP drugged up monster are we going to get into fights with?!? That being said though I'm sure your husband is neither of those examples. So’ why doesn’t the technique work? Well as unrealistic as cooperative opponents can be when working on a technique sometimes resisting opponents can be just as unrealistic. Meaning your husband knows what you are trying to do when you are doing it and is resisting in such a way that it's not going to work. Now you being a nice person isn't trying to hurt your husband so it puts you at a disadvantage. A lot of the time in actual situations certain locks and manipulations have to be set up with a something first or even during the attempt. Imagine shoving your fingers into your husbands eyes first or kicking him in the balls during the lock, I'd bet he would be much more cooperative then.

[KarateGeorge]

When facing greater strength, one must use greater smarts. There are things you can do to work around their strength. Before applying a hand twist for example, you initiate the technique with a strike to stun them long enough to allow you to apply the technique without their resistance. Also, strikes directly to joints can't really be resisted by strength.

Maximize your strengths, minimize their strengths.

[joesteph]

I think Sokusen and George made some good points. I remember taking a course in the past called Street Survival. The first hour was how to avoid/prevent situations; the second hour was MA.

I remember when we did defense against the wrist grab, just to break free from the hold by a proper twist of one's wrist. I didn't have a problem with men grabbing my wrist, but I did foolishly grab a woman partner's wrist as I did the men's. She needed to get the technique down right first against a snug grip, then worry about a strong one.

We spoke with our instructor, who said that she would either have to be immediate in real life, before the grip got tight, or, if her assailant got a good hold of her, a shot to his face (like a palmheel to his nose) would weaken his grip.

BTW, many find that adding just the right twist of the hips adds to the power of your break from the grip. Your sensei might help you with that.

[tallgeese]

Some good points have been made.

I'll add that there are always some movements that just flat out work better than others. It doesn't make the others bad, it just means that they are going to be less "high percentage" than others and should be treated as such.

Additionally, there is a component of striking that HAS to occur in order to make joint work effective. It's something that is overlooked so often that it bears repeating.

Further, there are some joint manipulations that are just taught these days to be used in the wrong context. This takes them out of their most effective applications and tries to make them fit circumstances that they weren't designed for. This makes them seem less effective.

Personally, I feel that small joint manipulations really come in most handy during weapon control scenarios where you can justify the commitment of two of your weapons to one of his just based on the higher threat of his. But that's just me.

The last thing to consider is that lots of people train a tad incorrectly in regard to joint manipulations. They either a) treat it as a "lock" instead of a break and thus expect it to function differently than intended, or b) train to keep trying to get it even when it's not working. They are a tool, to be abandoned in favor of another when not working like anything else we use.

Just some thoughts on the matter.

[algernon]

Well as unrealistic as cooperative opponents can be when working on a technique sometimes resisting opponents can be just as unrealistic.

Very good point.

As I've said elsewhere, what one lacks in formal training may be easily compensated for with size, strength, tenacity and experience. Size matters. The more skilled you are, the less it matters, but it will always be a factor. The goal of training is to make your advantage of skill outweigh any disadvantage of strength.

[RichardZ]

Will size and strength matter for a women against a guy?

[Montana]

The martial arts is about adapting to our ever changing situation(s). When something is attempted against an attacker and that one thing tried doesn't work, well, go to something else.

If someone physically stronger than you remember this one thing. Joints/bones GIVE; they break or crack!

Leverage and the like will beat over strength. Strength works but one properly applied technique(s) weakens the strength dramatically.

In the martial arts as in many other things in life, David will always beat Goliath, not with strength, but, a well applied technique(s)!

Agreed. If the technique you've been shown is legitimate (meaning not just for show, but actually a good technique), then the strength of your opponent should make little difference.

[RichardZ]

David will always beat Goliath, not with strength, but, a well applied technique(s)!

David didnt beat Goliath with muscle to muscle, he had a long distance weapon.

What id Goliath had a bow and arrow, thus having better distance than david? It was like a BB gun and a musket. No comparison upon man verese man. the btter weapon is how David won along with Goliath's complacency.