Standard Kumite - a waste of time!!!!!

[Wa-No-Michi]

I look at it much the same way as Kuma. I think the primary focus of ma's should always be self defense. Anything else is a by product of that.

If your primary focus is self defense, then you shoud focus primarily on self defense.

I agree with Bushi that an instructors job should always have this as a priority, but its not the main reason.

Self improvement is the main reason.

WNM

[RichardZ]

Spaaring can help in developng reflexes, to a degree and help in overcoming certain fears, like the onfrontation and lso of getting hit.

However, for defense, sparring could slow down a defense process of not following through, and/or hesitation

[bushido_man96]

I look at it much the same way as Kuma. I think the primary focus of ma's should always be self defense. Anything else is a by product of that.

If your primary focus is self defense, then you shoud focus primarily on self defense.

I agree with Bushi that an instructors job should always have this as a priority, but its not the main reason.

Self improvement is the main reason.

WNM

When I signed up for TKD, I wasn't interested in self-improvement. I was interested in self-defense. I still don't go to TKD for self-improvement purposes. I do get physical self-improvement out of it, but I don't really take away anything spiritual or cultural.

In our Aikido classes, there is more of that, but I don't put a lot of credence in it. I listen to what they have to say, and then make my own judgements.

[RichardZ]

TKD offered me light-footedness and better flexibility above all else. of ocurse it a some impractical flashy moves that people enjoyed

[Kuma]

If your primary focus is self defense, then you shoud focus primarily on self defense.

I agree with Bushi that an instructors job should always have this as a priority, but its not the main reason.

Self improvement is the main reason.

WNM

It depends on how you approach your art: as a "do" or as a "jutsu."

Not everyone is in it for the "do."

I personally feel if self defense is not a priority of your martial arts training, then what you're doing is not martial arts. By that point it's just exercise, interpretive dance, or whatever else you want to call it.

[Wa-No-Michi]

If your primary focus is self defense, then you shoud focus primarily on self defense.

I agree with Bushi that an instructors job should always have this as a priority, but its not the main reason.

Self improvement is the main reason.

WNM

It depends on how you approach your art: as a "do" or as a "jutsu."

Not everyone is in it for the "do."

I personally feel if self defense is not a priority of your martial arts training, then what you're doing is not martial arts. By that point it's just exercise, interpretive dance, or whatever else you want to call it.

I don't disagree actually, but I think there are quicker and sometimes easier ways to learn effective self protection than studying a traditional karate.

As for the “Jutsu” vs “Do” thing, its been discussed at some length on here and other boards, but in a nutshell there is little or no difference.

At the time when Karate was being accepted into the fold of Japanese MA, the "Do" suffix was deemed more "pc" than "Jutsu" which perhaps at the time seemed out-dated.

Today (and in particular the west) the "Do" has come represent the "self improvement" side, whereas "Jutsu" has come to suggest the pure fighting techniques of the arts.

In reality, whether you call what you do a "Do" or a Jutsu" a balance between martial technique/ability and self improvement (and not necessarily as a by product of the former) is what makes us martial artists, as opposed to simply fighters - IMO.

WNM

[Kuma]

You can play sports and get self improvement. I know I met lots of coaches who all had a positive effect on me in one way or another. I learned how to stick to my word, back my friends up, respect my family, never quit, give back to the community, and be a better person. All through organized sports.

However, aside from tackling somebody, what did I learn about self defense? Not a darn thing. THAT is the difference. You can get self improvement through all sorts of other means. The martial arts should be first and foremost always about fighting.

[Wa-No-Michi]

You can play sports and get self improvement. I know I met lots of coaches who all had a positive effect on me in one way or another. I learned how to stick to my word, back my friends up, respect my family, never quit, give back to the community, and be a better person. All through organized sports.

However, aside from tackling somebody, what did I learn about self defense? Not a darn thing. THAT is the difference. You can get self improvement through all sorts of other means. The martial arts should be first and foremost always about fighting.

Well, my ma is about fighting, but it is alot more than that - I am pleased to say

WNM

[Wa-No-Michi]

You can play sports and get self improvement. I know I met lots of coaches who all had a positive effect on me in one way or another. I learned how to stick to my word, back my friends up, respect my family, never quit, give back to the community, and be a better person. All through organized sports.

You should be able to get that through good ma training as well IMO and thats my point.

[Wa-No-Michi]

And... What of Kata and the process of Shu-ha-ri?

WNM