Punishment in the Martial Arts

[ninjanurse]

We have set penalties for being late, dropping your weapon, etc. , but I wouldn't say we use push ups for punishment-classroom motivation is a better way of putting it. It is a good way to improve their fitness as well as remind them of the discipline required in the martial arts.

[Harlan]

Punishment isn't the same as correction. The teacher's job is to teach, and make corrections. Corrections on physical form and technique. And if you are really lucky and they give a darn about you, corrections involving the intangibles for the long haul. That would involve mindset, attitudes, conduct that will pave the way for further learning. Basically, a 'well-rounded education' in the particular art.

Punishment, either physical (pushups, kicks, runs, etc.) or non-physical (shunning, withholding rank, mental games, etc.), doesn't belong in a dojo. The basic assumption is that everyone is there to learn. So, if punishment comes into a dojo, then either the student shouldn't be there, or the sensei.

[Rateh]

I'd never consider shunning or mental games punishment. I consider that to be complete immaturity of the person doing that, and he or she should NOT be in any sort of position of authority.

Withholding rank for poor behavior, when the student clearly knows that good behavior is a requirement to advance in rank, is not a punishment either imho. It is simply enforcing the guidelines set in place to advance in rank, just like not letting a student test who doesn't know their form.

I DO give push-ups to students, as a reminder of appropriate behavior. I never have, and never will give push-ups, verbal reprimands, or discussions with a student about their inappropirate behavior in anger. Letting any anger have ANY play in how you relate to students, imho, is completely inappropriate.

Also, students who are given push-ups should be told exactly what behavior it was that they are doing push-ups for. Focusing on the specific behavior, not on the student being a "bad egg" or any such concept. It is also important to specifically explain to the student what types of behaviors you ARE looking for, as well as praising students for the behavior you are looking for. (Especially in a student who was just punished/reprimanded/you had a personal discussion with)

[joesteph]

Withholding rank for poor behavior, when the student clearly knows that good behavior is a requirement to advance in rank, is not a punishment either imho. It is simply enforcing the guidelines set in place to advance in rank, just like not letting a student test who doesn't know their form.

I was glad to see this observation by you, Rateh, especially in that it can be applied to adults as well as children (and teens are "young adults" to me).

I've had incidents with a fellow adult student who's three levels above me, and I've never backed down from him. In each instance, it was clear who the instigator was, and the action taken was "defusing" (such as separation and repeating the rules), which I thought inadequate and only encouraged the bully (as I see him) that there are no "real" repurcussions.

I was very much taken aback when I discovered that, after certain incidents, he was permitted to take his next test, acknowledging his technique ability but not his "martial arts virtues" (the philosophy the art supposedly incorporates/stands for).

Since those times that I have asserted myself, he keeps clear of me. However, if it were up to me, these incidents would have had me tell him that he could not take his next test at the scheduled time, in that he had displayed a "lack" or "deficiency" of what was expected other than how to break someone's bones.

Sometimes, I believe an instructor knows better how to deal with kids than adults, the latter who are theoretically mature and would require no "disciplining."

[white owl]

We use physical punishment like push-ups, burpees or wall sits.

I should make myself a little clearer. We use physical punishment for being late for class, yawning, told repeatedly to listen.

[Wa-No-Michi]

I may be going over old ground here, but I don't see any reason to punish students - physically or otherwise - I don't think it is part of an instructors job.

Quite frankly, students are there to learn and if they don't want to learn we ask them to leave. Karate Dojos are not Kindergartens or correctional boot camps.

There are not enough dojo hours to teach Karate properly let alone having to waste time administering punishments.

WNM

[sensei8]

My very own Sensei/Dai-Soke SCREAMED VERY LOUD at me once when I was a kid, plus, I was suspended from the Dojo. What did I do? I put his belt on! BTW, I deserved it!

Funny how we're talking about what we would do and what we wouldn't do when it comes to punishment.

Even though a Dojo isn't the same thing as a public schools, K-12,...or are they? Both teach students. Yet, when a public school passes out its punishment; that's ok! Look at your childs Student Handbook once. You'd be surprised what's being enforced by your child's school. Some school punishment is severe.

For example, in the state of Texas, corporal punishment by the principal or the vice-principal are protected by law. What does this mean? A principal or a vice-principal DON'T need parent/guardian permission to use corporal punishment. In that, there's nothing a parent can do when their child is spanked!

[The BB of C]

I think I am going to move to Texas lol

[Tiger1962]

In my old school, kids who misbehaved were punished with either push-ups, sitting out of class or something similar.

I don't recall any adults being punished but there were a couple incidents where a couple of adult students had disagreements with each other. Nothing as bad as an actual fight though.

[bushido_man96]

I didn't know Texas schools still allowed spanking. Interesting....I think in some ways, it could be a good thing.