Should you choose a system based on an instructor's skills?

[bushido_man96]

In reading Black Belt mag, this little remark popped up, and thought I would put it to the KF populace for analyzing.

What do you think?

If you go to a school, and see a phenomenally talented instructor, is that a boon for you to sign up? Or do you watch the students? Or do you watch for the skill set that is being taught?

[KarateGeorge]

I've always been of the belief that a person's ability to do is not always the same as their ability to teach.

Some people are amazing martial artists, but aren't able to clearly pass on their knowledge.

Others may be average physically, due to various things, such as age, size, injuries, health conditions, etc., but they know their stuff and are great at passing it on and inspiring their students to be their best.

Still others are both physically amazing and great teachers capable of passing on their art.

There's an important place for both those who are physically amazing and those who are great teachers. There are great martial artists who have pushed the boundaries and challenged martial artists through sheer physical talent. But there are also those "unspoken heros" that though they may not be able to do the amazing feats themselves, they see in their students potential to do great things and inspire them to work towards being the best martial artist they can be. Those are the kinds of teachers that keep martial arts alive and ready to carry on to future generations.

[tallgeese]

I think that both have to be factored.

His students will give you the feel for how well he teaches. However, I think you need to look at his ability as well to get a gauge of where you can expect to be after x years of training. That's going to tell you if the class you're looking at fits the bill.

The progress of his students will give you a feel for how good he is at taking one along that path.

Good question.

[algernon]

If you go to a school and see a phenomenally talented instructor, perhaps you should find his teacher, who has clearly done something right!

While it is important that the instructor actually have the skills that you hope to learn from him, I put more weight on the quality of the students (relative to their time in training, of course). Rather than finding a teacher who has the attributes that I want, I tend to put more emphasis on finding a teacher who can effectively instill those abilities in others. Often (and ideally), a good instructor possesses the skills he is teaching to a high degree, but that is not always the case.

An instructor's skill is not a ceiling for his students' progress; indeed, if that were the case, there would be little room for progress! The ultimate aim of a good teacher is always to be surpassed by his students. A prime example is an older instructor with waning abilities. Though he may no longer be able to perform as well as some of his students, his ability to elevate his students above him is what counts.

[joesteph]

Going to a school and seeing a phenomenally talented instructor is definitely stimulating, but I wouldn't sign any contract, letting time studying under this instructor be a major factor. And I believe an instructor should not only know the material, but be able to convey it so that others can know it, which involves the virtue of patience.

Some of the most talented individuals haven't got a speck of patience (the tempermental artist), and who's to say that his teacher isn't the one who brought out his talent?

It's the personal touch, not the flash, that's needed for the long haul.

I'd say a combo of both great talent and teaching ability is dojang heaven.

[Harlan]

I'm unsure of the original question. I read the topic as asking whether or not to take th art based on the instructor's 'skills'. Skills, to my way of thinking, includes all of the above; the ability to teach, inspire, and do. It's the 'whole package', not just head knowledge, or physical ability, but character as well.

And then there is the student. What resonates for one student may very well be 'ho-hum' to another.

[tonydee]

If you go to a school, and see a phenomenally talented instructor, is that a boon for you to sign up? Or do you watch the students? Or do you watch for the skill set that is being taught?

A lot depends on where you are in the martial arts. For me personally, with a couple decades behind me, my tendency is to be less interested in the other students, as I can attempt to teach myself more directly from observation and interaction with the instructor.

But sometimes that doesn't pan out. For example, a bagua senior master I trained with had amazing ability, but his classes were characterised by the gentle pace of life he'd settled into as a bit of a celebrity in the local Chinese community, catering to old men who wanted to keep up some semblance of training done long ago but had no expectations or ambition to master anything in particular, and their grandchildren who were being sent along for a dose of Chinese culture in a foreign country. There just wasn't the drive for achieving realistic fighting abilities in the available training time, and even the keenest and most able students who'd been with him 10+ years and paying top dollar for private supplementary lessons still weren't approaching practical ability as overall martial artists... a warning sign I might have paid more attention to.

Iin the end I left for hapkido, which had less refined mechanics but a more practical curriculum and training methodology. In hapkido, my progress was hindered and ultimately limited by the lack of direct, realistic challenge with the master, preventing me testing or comprehending his abilities and their relationship to mine. Pushing the boundaries, going at it hard without regard to rank, is an essential part of training, and something I loved in my early taekwondo training. After reaching 1st dan then becoming an instructor, the availability of training partners at my level, and who'd be training somewhere at the same times, dwindled away.

Lots of things have to come together to make a good learning environment.

Instructor ability. Your strengths and weaknesses as a student. The intensity and directness of focus on practical, hands-on development of the techniques and abilities you're hoping to master, with practice partners at least as good and ambitious as you.

Cheers,

Tony

[bushido_man96]

Great answers, everybody.

With the experiences that I have now, I think that the training methodologies and skill set taught, along with how the students perform, would be some of the bigger clues for me to look for when searching out a school. Instructor skill is important, but the way he teaches is important, as well.

[cymry]

I've never heard of a good coach who wasn't at least in the past a very good fighter, though I'm sure there are lots of amazing athletes that wouldn't make the best coaches.

[DWx]

I've never heard of a good coach who wasn't at least in the past a very good fighter, though I'm sure there are lots of amazing athletes that wouldn't make the best coaches.

Being a good coach/teacher doesn't necessarily mean you are or were very good at it yourself. My friend's running coach is actually in a wheelchair but that doesn't make him a bad coach, he still understands about all the factors that go in to making the athlete better. Same with MA tecahers, they don't have to be physically gifted, can just have a good mind and be able to teach.