GRAPPLING

[Ragnarok]

Hello to everyone i always liked the grapling techinques but some of them are very hard nearly impossible to do to a street fight i know some very good graplings but the hard part is to do them in a street fight i like to hear your opinions (sorry for my bad eng)

[tallgeese]

They work based on your comfort and skill with them in regards to your opponents. As with any other movements you elects to use.

I've used them successfully in a live situation, and I've had them fail. Conversly, I've been successful with stand up joint position, and I've had it fail. I've done the same thing with stand up striking. Ect.

This is the case with all things in combat. A fight is too fluid to ever say this of that won't ever work or is too difficult to do. There are movements that are more high risk to the user than others. There are movements that have been shown over time to be more "high percentage" in effect, these should be the core of what you do, both stand up and on the ground. It doesn't mean that they should be the only thing you do in either case.

When we come to the ground specific, you'll have this same set of things. You're "go to" stuff and everything else. However, if you never train in anything but your go to material, you'll never prep anything else for use. So it's a good idea to widen what you do.

As for ground work itself in the street, it is effective. Is it ideal to be on the ground, maybe and maybe not. Again, the variables are too many to be 100% positive either way. I will say that it's easy enough to end up there, so it's a good idea to be well versed there. I'm not saying everyone should quit what they are doing and start BJJ, but one should cross train to a comfort level with grappling.

I still do quite a bit of stand up work across a wide range of stuff, despite my current love of BJJ. It's part of preparing a complete response to aggression.

[ps1]

Application of technique comes down to one thing.

Time on the mat.

The more you train, the better you get and more likely you will be able to use the techniques in a live situation. That goes for any moves, grappling or otherwise.

[bushido_man96]

I would have to throw my lot in with these guys as well. Learning the techniques as well as having good drilling methods that mirror closely what you will be doing are the best ways to increase your comfort level in anything you do.

[cross]

I agree with the others, and keep in mind that most grappling techniques can seem fairly difficult to pull off in isolation, but when you have already "softened up" your opponent with strikes they suddenly become alot easier to do.

[rogue2257]

Realistically, you'll probably only be able to use techniques that you've drilled over and over and over. Everything is more difficult under stress, and you don't want to have to sit there trying to choose which throw you want to use. The ones that you know like the back of your hand will be the best.

When it comes to throws and takedowns, the techniques don't have to be complex to be efficient. All they have to do is work.

[tallgeese]

To go on a bit furter, and to build onto an excellent point that cross made, nothing is done in isolation. Espicially in a fight.

Individual movements can be complex, however, consider that they are intended to be used as part of a series of movements that constantly move your opponant where you want him to go. If and when he shuts one door, another will be opened. This pattern contines until the advantage falls to you. It's part of the reason you'll generally see the more active (at least the more skilled activity) fighter do better.

Is this complex, yes it is. Ground fighting, and espicially BJJ is not an easy or simple art. However, it embraces this sort of thing to a greater degree than any other art I've been part of or cross trained in over the 20+ years i've been doing this.

So it's best to look at how a situation might play out. Let's use an X guard for instance. It's a complex movement on paper, and practice as well. You might look at it and go "never in a fight". You might be right, but let's assume you drill it to comfort.

Now, a fight comes along. You catch a cross and go down despite not wanting to. To lead us in to grappling, let's say you try to pull guard on the way down to initiate a gorund fight since you're thinking you can't really stand all t hat well anymore wiht the birdies spinning around your head. Now he's up and pulls back at your guard pull effort. This leaves you down and him up. You're looking to pull guard so your legs are kind of in that posture anyway.

He starts to kick away. You grab one with an underhook out of sheer terror as you try to stop the next kick. This kind of pulls you under him. You legs are up so they X on his other leg since they need to do something. Now you've started the set up. You've drilled this so it's familiar.

You bump with the X and he loosed balance and comes forward, letting you get the upper body componant. He starts hitting so you throw the sweep you've just set up to keep him from doing it more. Now you're on top, or at least back to neutral on the ground and he's not pounding you from top anymore.

So, you've passed though a stand up exchange, a pull to guard effort, an effort to evade the ground and pound, the X guard and sweep. Nothing alone and each part kind of leads into the next.

Of course it's a hypothetical example. But you see the idea, a highly complex move, drilled to comfort suddenly can be used out of context due to muscle memory and adaptation. Nothing occurs in a vaccum. This means something else can actually help your effort at the movement.

How do you get to this point? ps1 is right- mat time. To be able to use the more highly complex series you'll need mat time that builds it into you. That time time and coaching with some competent individuals.

It's the more complex things that can really get messed up if you're trying to pull them from videos or books. Can't beat hands on mat time with good coaches or good training partners.

[Ragnarok]

i agree with all of you guys but i am speaking about the big guys i once fought with one i am 1.72 and 75 kg and he was like 1.85 and like about 100kg but even i know ninjutsu i was a bit afraid to fight a big guy so i couldnt do my moves like so i took him out this way: i waited for him to come to grap me so i block his grab and ive done a choson on his face. now i am wondering what THE HELL WAS THAT i needed to put more power to my graps or i was loosing it?????

[rogue2257]

i agree with all of you guys but i am speaking about the big guys i once fought with one i am 1.72 and 75 kg and he was like 1.85 and like about 100kg but even i know ninjutsu i was a bit afraid to fight a big guy so i couldnt do my moves like so i took him out this way: i waited for him to come to grap me so i block his grab and ive done a choson on his face. now i am wondering what THE HELL WAS THAT i needed to put more power to my graps or i was loosing it?????

.....what? Punctuation ftw.