Self-Defense: Superior to fighting?

[MMA_Jim]

Look at Bob Sapp vs Fujita for your answer on that one- the chances of a football player beating up a skilled MMA fighter are about as good as that same mma fighter beating the football player in football.

AND...

It is no doubt that a person trained in a specialized field will be better than someone even on a casual exposure.

Yet, the question was...

RichardZ wrote:

but can a football player beat up a skilled MMA?

My answer is still...

Why not? Anybody can beat anybody anytime and anyday. No one is unbeatable.

Kazuyuki Fujita- 6'0 230 lbs Professional MMA fighter

Bob Sapp- 6'6 375 lbs former professional football player (and since he gets paid to fight hes also a "professional" mixed martial artist)

So thats what happens when a football player fights against a skilled MMA fighter- its no contest. What would make you think it would ever be one? Because a football player is big and strong?

Strength and aggression are things that pro fighters know plenty about- everyone that gets into a fight uses these two things- its nothing new when a big strong guy comes along. What this fight shows is that regardless of how big, strong, and "bad" one may be, its still no contest againt a skilled MMA fighter

[Kuma]

Kazuyuki Fujita- 6'0 230 lbs Professional MMA fighter

Bob Sapp- 6'6 375 lbs former professional football player (and since he gets paid to fight hes also a "professional" mixed martial artist)

So thats what happens when a football player fights against a skilled MMA fighter- its no contest. What would make you think it would ever be one? Because a football player is big and strong?

Strength and aggression are things that pro fighters know plenty about- everyone that gets into a fight uses these two things- its nothing new when a big strong guy comes along. What this fight shows is that regardless of how big, strong, and "bad" one may be, its still no contest againt a skilled MMA fighter

I think you're missing his point. He's not comparing stats or actual matches, he's simply saying that everyone can lose to somebody else. If Fujita was sitting on a bar stool kicking back one and Sapp sucker punched him, that's a different story than two individuals going into a cage fully intending to be hit and hit another person within a rule set.

That's also discounting the fact that the football player might just land a lucky shot, or the MMA fighter hurts himself which significantly hampers his skill, or any number of factors. In TUF they had that Brad Imes guy who was not great by any means but still won against guys with lots of extra training. And that's just in that limited rule set. Outside the ring is a whole other story.

[JiuJitsuNation]

The difference between self defense and the "fighter" to me is a 120 pound woman fighting back enough to flee as she is to weak to engage much more. When teaching self defense this is the way I see it and teach it. It's the very basic moves that can be used by people who have less commitment and or less ability. Many of the techniques of course i would use however with my experience I would never be in those very common situations. And when I find myself in those situations where I have to act the consequences for everyone involved is greater. I intend to do more harm past a particular point than the person just wanting to get out of the situation. to me it's not about self defense vs. fighting. To me it's able to fight or not. Many people have not the ability nor the fortitude to engage. Many people do not have the physical abilities that many others have. Take Rhadi Ferguson, the guy can pick up 300 plus guys and literally toss them in the air just snatching them up with a high crotch. I'd say you'll get more than you want with that. Then look at any one of the ladies I teach in my womens only class and I just pray that day they choose to go home. There are many different breeds of people and this is what makes the differences. As tallgeese said why get into semantics?

[bushido_man96]

Winning changes for everyone in any given situation, too. On the street, "winning" may mean just surviving, or it may mean taking the bully, and stomping a mud hole in his face and then walking it dry, because you've had enough of him. In the ring, it could be going three rounds with the champ, and going to a decision. I guess this would be the concept of personal victory, and it is different for everyone, and every circumstance.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Winning changes for everyone in any given situation, too. On the street, "winning" may mean just surviving, or it may mean taking the bully, and stomping a mud hole in his face and then walking it dry, because you've had enough of him. In the ring, it could be going three rounds with the champ, and going to a decision. I guess this would be the concept of personal victory, and it is different for everyone, and every circumstance.

I completely agree. Going home at night is a win. Some peoples fight response is stronger than their flight response. Which can be a problem as well. lol

[bushido_man96]

Winning changes for everyone in any given situation, too. On the street, "winning" may mean just surviving, or it may mean taking the bully, and stomping a mud hole in his face and then walking it dry, because you've had enough of him. In the ring, it could be going three rounds with the champ, and going to a decision. I guess this would be the concept of personal victory, and it is different for everyone, and every circumstance.

I completely agree. Going home at night is a win. Some peoples fight response is stronger than their flight response. Which can be a problem as well. lol

Hehe, I saw that happen to my brother at state Wrestling his senior year. A guy ended up tripping and rolling him out of the circle. He got up, mad, charged the guy, they locked up, and he got tossed and pinned. Sad, but funny to see. The coach told him he had too much testosterone!

[ps1]

The problem with the video is that the "self defense" spouted is all about establishing dominance over the attacker. While this is great if you're a 200+lb well built male, it's not always possible for everyone. I would like to see a 100lb woman do the same thing. There may be a few who can...but the majority could not do that.

When I studied Shotokan, my instructor was a very well known police officer in the state of Ohio. He taught self defense seminars to women all the time...but he never taught striking to the eyes or gouging the eyes. When I asked him why he said, "It takes a special kind of person to put their fingers skull deep into an eye socket, most people don't have it in em to do it." When you think about that...it's very true.

Rather, he focused on prevention and carrying things like mace with them. A quick strike to the nose or smack to the groin and run to a populated area. His stuff was boring, but effective for the target group.

The simple fact is big guys like the one in the video rarely, if ever, are singled out by an assailant. Instead, like in the video, it's more of a macho thing. I mean...the dude just plastered his shoulder right into the guy. Who does that? Elk, Bears, and two macho, testosterone driven guys. That's it.

The problem is that when most people say "the street" they actually envision a dark, empty alley, sidewalk, or parking lot.

The simple fact is that the target of most violent crimes are women, elderly, and children. The most common violent crime among women is rape, with over 50% being committed by someone they know in a place they are usually comfortable. Among children it's abuse...again, by someone they know in a place they are comfortable. Elderly are the most likely to be mugged. Let me see an 86 yr old with a cane react the way they did in the video.

You need a manner of defense where by a weaker person can overcome a stronger person. Additionally, your reaction needs to be able to counter the amazing aggression that these assailants usually exhibit.

More than anything, you need to have the will to go home to your family.

[bushido_man96]

Great post, ps1, with many good points. I'd say you nailed it.

[JiuJitsuNation]

Very good!

[tallgeese]

ps1, you make a great point. One that gets overlooked alot. Predatory attacks in our world work much like the animal kingdom, those least able to protect themselves often are the first targets.

At 37, I'm still pretty strong for my size, still fairly fast; but I'm not what I was on sheer physicality ealier in my life. There, I said it. That means that right now, I have to start fighting smarter. And training smarter for longevity of being active in the arts.

Extrapolate that by 10 years, and I've got to consider some force multipliers. Weapons, ect. So, rather than wait until then, best to train now for those inevitable years. That's why I think arts designed for modern combative work need to consider knives and guns in their tactics. It's the reality of the world now, and the physical degredation we all see as we age will eventually make us rely on exteror edges.

Now, can we minimize that degredation, of course. That's why diet, excercise, continual training all matter. But you can't deny the changes that occur. best to consider the options now.