Joint Lock Counters

[joesteph]

Assuming your studies have included applying joint locks, my question is if you've trained in countering joint locks. The following video is countering a wrist lock:

You can start at the beginning to see him demonstrate what specific wrist lock is to be countered, or go right to :52 to see the counter. It's not just escaping that's being demonstrated, but turning things around on the opponent, applying a joint maneuver on him.

[joesteph]

I found the second in this series by Ollie Batts. I particularly like what he does at :23 and :56. Someone with more experience than I have might be more skillful with how to perform the other responses.

From what I can see just from the two videos posted, counters to joint locks have to be noticeably faster than applying them, or else you're a "goner."

It looks like applying and countering joint locks can take up a whole class, if the instructor is willing/able to devote that time.

[bushido_man96]

I like these.

I have spent some time on countering joint locks, but most of it has been in rollouts, or on a few where you can grab you hand, much like this guy did, and reverse the motion. I just haven't done that with the wrist lock, but I will show it to my DT partner on Monday.

This is something that I haven't seen yet, to this extent, in Combat Hapkido, but I think it may become something that my DT partner and I might begin spending time on.

On a side note, the only thing I saw that I didn't like was how the teacher always ended up between his opponent's legs when taking them down. A good grappler might be able to wrap him up, and take him down, and turn the tables. Otherwise, I liked the counter ideas.

[sensei8]

Assuming your studies have included applying joint locks, my question is if you've trained in countering joint locks.

Joe,

Don't hate me, but, I feel I need to say this, if nothing else. Of what value would it be to learn/train how to apply joint locks if one ISN'T going to learn/train how to counter joint locks?

Shindokan Tuite would be meaningless without the relationship of application and countering of joint locks.

Ok, I'll go back to my corner.

[tonydee]

It looks like applying and countering joint locks can take up a whole class, if the instructor is willing/able to devote that time.

Master of understatement there . In hapkido we practiced both locks and counters, for years, though it's hard enough to get good at locking and countering with another lock is a step up from that....

Cheers,

Tony

[beagstkd]

Our school has three seperate drills calling them "lock-flows" where it's a series of hand, arm, head locks and counters to those locks. Each drill has 8 or 9 moves. It's a great drill and like any other the more you work it the less you have to think about the counter when someone tries to put you into a lock.

Unfortunately went I first started training I tried to find reference videos on youtube and couldn't so I think it's pretty unique drill we do.

[bushido_man96]

Assuming your studies have included applying joint locks, my question is if you've trained in countering joint locks.

Joe,

Don't hate me, but, I feel I need to say this, if nothing else. Of what value would it be to learn/train how to apply joint locks if one ISN'T going to learn/train how to counter joint locks?

Shindokan Tuite would be meaningless without the relationship of application and countering of joint locks.

Ok, I'll go back to my corner.

I agree with you, Bob, but to be honest, it wasn't something that I have had a lot of exposure to yet. This has really been an eye-opener for me.

[sensei8]

Assuming your studies have included applying joint locks, my question is if you've trained in countering joint locks.

Joe,

Don't hate me, but, I feel I need to say this, if nothing else. Of what value would it be to learn/train how to apply joint locks if one ISN'T going to learn/train how to counter joint locks?

Shindokan Tuite would be meaningless without the relationship of application and countering of joint locks.

Ok, I'll go back to my corner.

I agree with you, Bob, but to be honest, it wasn't something that I have had a lot of exposure to yet. This has really been an eye-opener for me.

I understand!

Imagine, if only for a second, for example, that I learnt Shindokan without ever knowing counters existed; Shindokan would be very one-diminsional. Scares the beetlejuice out of me! I'd have all of the bullets, but, no gun to shoot them with...WORTHLESS! What good are the bullets without the gun to shoot them, for any martial arts, what good is the offense without knowing/understanding the defense...or that one or the other doesn't even exist at all?