Difference between jiu jitsu and BJJ?

[tallgeese]

Or, if the fight does go to the ground (very possible) best to be prepared with some training there to be able to survive and GET UP. This is always the answer I get when I talk to combatives people about the issue.

The problem is, it's way harder to get up if you haven't trained in a ground system than if you do. If for no other reason at all this is a good reason to think about BJJ or another ground systems as a tool for self defense, not just athletic competition.

[ninjanurse]

l Now im not saying MMA isnt, but a live fight on the street, and the fight goes to the ground, be ready to get stabbed or stomped on by the guys friends.

Good point!

[JiuJitsuNation]

Ok, Im going to try to explain this as not to offend anyone. BJJ was taught to helio Gracie by a judoka. (cant remember name) This happened in the early 60's. The main focus of the samurai hand to hand was Daito Ryu Akijutsu which was Tekada Sokaku's system. Samurai learned these techniques they had to b able to use on the enemy and had to b affective and semi simplistic because of the armor issue. In my system, ryuho okuyama, the founder and ueashiba the founder of Aikido Studied under Tekada. At that time there was only four lisences, not belts. After training for many yrs, the two left and founded their own systems. Both r very spiritual styles. BJJ is more sporty and athletic, TJJJ is still strong in a defensive manor. Now im not saying MMA isnt, but a live fight on the street, and the fight goes to the ground, be ready to get stabbed or stomped on by the guys friends.

In 1917 Carlos Gracie watched his first Judo demonstration and then decided he wanted to train. The first Gracie Academy was established in 1925. There are many disarming techniques as well as attacks using weapons in Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Is it the main focus? No. But training with one of the old guys is much different than training with someone who is on fire right now in the sport of BJJ. Sport has a way of accelerating a styles evolution, in every instance for the worse. Although sport may strengthen an art in an area it always creates a weakness of equal proportions. What makes GJJ/BJJ effective is that it's a grappling art for one and two the way it is trained. To say that BJJ is more sporty and athletic is only a glimpse into the world of BJJ. Any style that doesn't encourage good health and making the body better... well maybe they are just a business and not a source of solid, well rounded information about a lifestyle. BJJ/GJJ is a lifestyle, as should every martial way be.

[Jay]

Or, if the fight does go to the ground (very possible) best to be prepared with some training there to be able to survive and GET UP. This is always the answer I get when I talk to combatives people about the issue.

The problem is, it's way harder to get up if you haven't trained in a ground system than if you do. If for no other reason at all this is a good reason to think about BJJ or another ground systems as a tool for self defense, not just athletic competition.

I do some anti grappling and after doing this I realised that if the guy your on the he ifloor with knows what s doing/ is much bigger it is very difficult. So I now do grappling stuff. I think the thing is here to be prepared for anything. To me if you get taken down your usually at the bottom that is not where you want to be. Position is everything which ironically is the same thing for grappling on top generally seems better. When you are on top as well its usually easier to stand back up.

[mikeb87]

i do danzan ryu jiujitsu and we grapple all the time. we spend the first part of class learning techniques and the rest of class grappling.

[MMA_Jim]

Both r very spiritual styles. BJJ is more sporty and athletic, TJJJ is still strong in a defensive manor. Now im not saying MMA isnt, but a live fight on the street, and the fight goes to the ground, be ready to get stabbed or stomped on by the guys friends.

Im going to say you dont train very often in BJJ- theres NOTHING spiritual about it. Its only spiritual to those who decide to be.

And back to the old "multiple opponents" argument.

First off, regardless of what style you train in multiple opponents will be very difficult. You can talk all that stick and move stuff you want, but this begs the very question-

Fighting one person is so much harder than fighting two. You take your style thats supposed to be used to defeat multiple attackers and you find your theory falls apart and you lose to one opponent- what now makes you think that you can defeat more than one? Where does that logic come in?

Beyond that, why is everyone getting into a ground fight always outnumbered? I've got friends too, you know? When talking about these fights, people like you make it seem the moment you hit the ground you're surrounded by a plethora of dirty syringes, lava, broken beer bottles, and a small army of curb stompers with steel tip boots.

How many fights have you been in? I've been in several hundred, plenty of times with multiple opponents. One time in particular, the bouncers at our bar got into a fight with the entire starting lineup for Lasalle University's football team (I believe it was them). They are a D-III team, so that means no drug tests (roided beyond belief).

So in a basement with more than 40 people fighting, know how often I went to the ground? Not at all. Imagine that-Im a grappler and I didnt pull guard.... What did I do? Since all of these guys were significantly larger than me, I quickly clinched the first guy in front of me. I caught a couple of glancing blows from on the back of my head from his two surrounding friends. I think it hurt their hands more than it did me (didnt do much). At this point I used my knowledge of grappling to slip behind and take my opponents back (while standing) and choke him unconcious, all the while able to use him as a shield and prevent other people from attacking me. I did this 3 x over, and choked out 3 different people in less than a minute- one guy I choked out twice.

None of the other bouncers at this bar were very grappling savvy- almost all are swinging for the fences. Many broke their hands during the fight. The only thing that happened to me was having a sore back from having to hip in to guys who outweighed me by more than 100lbs.

So what does a striker do in that situation? For one, football players know how to take a hit, so thats nothing new to them. And another, they're pretty good at crude takedowns (tackles?). And remember you're outweighed by close to 100lbs by each guy. Im not saying a striker cant handle that situation- but I am saying he cant handle it better.

[MasterPain]

I notice you did not go to the ground.

Why? Probably because it's not a good place to be in a crowd of idiots hitting anything that looks vulnerable.

As a bouncer, your job is to calm things down. For most of us, the stick and move is a good idea, because it's best to just leave if possible. Unless a person is working some type of security or protecting someone, there is no reason to stay and fight.

Also who's system designed for multiple attackers failed against one person where?

[ps1]

Also who's system designed for multiple attackers failed against one person where?

The original UFC competitions pitted style v style. At the time, there were very few rules. Many of the competitors there found that their styles were not as effective 1v1 as they had thought. The main reason for this is because people can take alot more damage then many martial artists give them credit for. That "one strike, one kill" is far more elusive than people believe. That difficulty in handling just one opponent becomes exponentially more difficult when others are involved.

Among the styles represented in these competitions were TKD, BJJ, Karate, Kickboxing, Shootfighting, Boxing, wrestling, and Sambo...among others.

Granted...it's a competition. But there were VERY FEW rules at the time. Groin strikes and fish hooking were still legal. It was bare knuckle and I believe the only illegal actions were biting and eye gouging.

I think Rorion Gracie said it best years ago in Black Belt Magazine. "A person can never overpower multiple attackers. They can survive and even defeat them. But never overpower them." It's a very realistic view of the situation. That's what many martial artists lack.

[MMA_Jim]

Actually, even biting and eye gouging could be done. Under no circumstances save a tap out or a corner throwing in the towel was the ref allowed to stop the match. The penalty for biting or eye gouging was a fine- but it wouldnt cost you the fight. Hell, the fight wouldnt even be stopped. (Gerard Gordeau bit Royce Gracie's ear when he clinched him up- part of the reason Royce held the choke after he tapped out.

So, a fighter was still able to eye gouge and bite his way to victory while only paying a few thousand dollars which wouldnt amount to much after a $50,000 payday.

[tsd1592]

First off people saying bjj is useless when fighting more than one person is dead wrong. Y do you think this when all most of anyone has seen of the art is on mma. I take tang soo do if you seen me on a mma show you would say the same thing. Y because you don't fight more than one opponent at a time in a sporting event. So unless you personal take bjj I don't think any of us really have a understanding of what we are saying. Also lets think on what in a real fight agents more than one opponent are going to do kick knees eye gouge and keep one person between us and multiple attackers as not to get surrounded last i checked bjj guys do the same thing. so here we have a long heated debate and the bottom line we all are artist we all chose different ma for a reason thay suted us. so who are we to say one style is useless at one thing when most of us saying this about that art have had no exp in it. First off bjj is a great complete art that has been tested and proven over and over agean. is it the best art NO not any art is better than the other just difrent in approach and beliefes .