Toptomcat Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Belt rankings seem to be a topic that attracts a lot of attention in the martial arts, and I've been noticing some pretty severe misconceptions about what they are and what they mean. One of the biggest is that someone's belt ranking has meaning as a measure of their objective ability. There are a great deal of topics dealing with questions like how long it ought to take to get to shodan and the like: I submit that the whole thing is just so much fruitless wheel-spinning because it varies so very much between styles and schools.Think about it. A black belt at the worst of McDojos means that you payed your membership dues for a year or two. A black belt at a school of slightly higher standards means that you showed up on a regular baisis for about the same period- not that you have neccesarily improved a great deal while doing so.A black belt at a competition-focused school means that you're physically fit and have an understanding of timing, distance, and have an excellent grasp on a core set of no more than a dozen techniques that work excellently for you- without, perhaps, having heard the word 'bunkai' more than once or twice in your life. You could have gotten there in ten years or six months, depending on your innate athleticism and whether or not you'd studied another applicable combat sport beforehand.A black belt at a kata-heavy school means that you have carefully memorized an impressive number of set routines and bunkai, and can perform them well- but you could easily have gotten there and still be red-faced and out of breath at the end of three minutes of energetic shadowboxing, or find yourself more or less a loss should one of your predetermined routines miss or fail to work the way you expect it to.In many places, degrees of black belt above about 3rd or 4th have more to do with who you know and how well you can play the political game than physical fitness or martial skill.Different schools award rank for different things. One shodan may have a broad knowledge of kata, another may struggle with them. One shodan may have made deep study of the writings of karate's founding figures: another may have difficulty naming enough of them to fill the fingers of one hand. One shodan may be able to kick your rear up and down the street, another may be totally unable to defend himself. One shodan may be a capable, charismatic, and patient teacher, while another may be unable to just keep order in a roomful of students.Granted, this isn't ideal. But it is the present state of karate, and it's something everyone ought to keep in mind. Rank is *not* an objective measure of a karateka's worth as a martial artist, across the board. It is a reflection of whether he embodies what his style, school, and federation values in a martial artist, and before trying to draw any conclusions about a martial artist's competence from their rank- positive or negative- one should have a fairly good idea of what rank means in their context.
mudansha Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 A black belt means that the piece of cloth that holds one's gi shut absorbs all Red Blue and Green light frequencies.Without a decent pedigree to support the rank, it means nothing. I can buy a black belt certificate with my name on it on ebay. Way of Japan Karate Do Bakersfield, Ca. USA
Chuck Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 My Sensei (like many others) says 1st Dan (Shodan) is when the real training begins.My Sensei won't let you get past 1st kyu/test for 1st Dan until you are ready, so many just stay brown belt for quite sometime.In the last 3 years only two kids (10 and 12 years old) got their Shodan.
Toptomcat Posted August 22, 2009 Author Posted August 22, 2009 It's not a matter of merely 'good' black belts or 'bad' black belts, black belts worked for three years or seven- that's only a part of the spectrum. Even dedicated martial artists who worked hard for years for their shodan, and hold a legitimate black belt, can have dramatically different skill sets.
cathal Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 It's not a matter of merely 'good' black belts or 'bad' black belts, black belts worked for three years or seven- that's only a part of the spectrum. Even dedicated martial artists who worked hard for years for their shodan, and hold a legitimate black belt, can have dramatically different skill sets.Well said. I think that the definition seems to vary a great deal. Even from dojo-to-dojo in the same organization, sometimes. .The best victory is when the opponent surrendersof its own accord before there are any actualhostilities...It is best to win without fighting.- Sun-tzu
unknownstyle Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 i believe that a black belt means you have a good knowledge of the basics and kata as well as a good understanding of fighting concepts. i truly believe that you really learn after blackbelt, that is where you are fine tuned and work on the mastery of these things. in styles like bjj there is no curricullum after blackbelt it is all mat time and contribution to your art. and i really like that "Live life easy and peacefully, but when it is time to fight become ferocious."
sensei8 Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 In many places, degrees of black belt above about 3rd or 4th have more to do with who you know and how well you can play the political game than physical fitness or martial skill.Ouch....I don't agree with this statement in its entirety, but still, OUCH! I'm above 3rd/4th Dan, but, everyone who knows me, here at KF and elsewhere, knows my philosophy of rank. Rank has its place within its context, after that, ranks meaningless! Proof is on the floor! **Proof is on the floor!!!
barefoot-kohai Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Hello everybody.To me, trying to 'quantify' the amount of knowledge and skill associated to a black belt is like trying to catch with your hands the moon reflection in a pond: there is not such a thing in this world as a machine where you can put a person on and measure his "blackbeltiness".Same thing happens with karate (or any martial art). Being able of beating forty enemies in a row, breaking 10 bricks, knowing 100 kata or winning a tournament, does not mean that a person is necessarily a good karate-ka. Showing defects, being beaten, not having broken a single brick or piece of wood in your whole life and avoiding fights does not mean that that person is a bad karate-ka. (Avoiding fights means that he/she is wise).There is "good" and "bad" in everybody. Perfecion does not exist, as there is not a "good, pure and true" way of karate-do.Let's go to the matterAs I see it (from the things I have seen in my practice), I consider that a black belt is a person who is in the way (his way, his path), a person in his DO.A first dan is a student with knowledge enough to be able to start walking his own path: after mastering (or knowing) basic knowledge he can (and has to) develop his own ways in the martial art - is like being transfered to the "grown-ups" class. A first dan black belt is not the goal, it is just the beginning. You may love and respect your teacher and your style, but you are neither your teacher, nor your teacher's teacher. Keeping the "basic rules" and the teachings -in a strict or broad sense- you have to develop your own ways: If your teacher is "lord master of long and agile legs" and your legs are short and clumsy it is obvious that your own way of practising will be different than your teacher's: probably you will have an incredible punch and your own way will be "fist-oriented". If your teacher does not see things like this, just change your teacher, learn your ways in secret or suffer in silence.I've always hated "quantifications": The sort of assertions as "You are black belt, but I know more kata than you, so I should be black belt too" is the kind of simplistic (and stupid) argument leading nowhere.Karate (and martial arts in general) is not all about kicks, punches, stances, katas or getting your nose broken in the street. There is also a "non physical" part - I call it "internal karate". When I talk about "internal karate" I'm not talking about deep meditations neither philosophy nor gods-worshipping and all these things, but about something we could qualify as a "clear state of mind" that is visible through the karate-ka's (mental and personal) balance. Is when you stop doing punches, kicks, defenses and stances and you simply "do karate".I'm 42 and maybe the young blue and brown belts in my club kick higher than me, they beat harder than me and punch faster... but, are they (and their karate) mature enough ?They have mastered "how" and "when", but not "why do I...": Why do I choose this tecnique and this way of attacking or counter attacking among others ?I'm a first dan black belt. Not because I kick higher than anyone or my technique is more depurated, but because my teacher thought that the time had come to me to start my (own) way. Regarding the question of "why" said above: My teacher considered that time had come for me to start solving this question and start developing my (own) ways in karate without having to justify them as to myself.Anyway, I'm just a black belt: neither better nor worst than any other karate-ka. As I say to my fellow class colleagues, If somebody thinks that any other person should wear my black belt instead of me, just tell me who and if that person wants it, I will gladly give him/her my belt: But only the belt... my "myself" is mine and mine only.Best regards "Words without thoughts never to heaven go"
sensei8 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 barefoot-kohai,Solid post! Welcome! **Proof is on the floor!!!
bushido_man96 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 My Sensei (like many others) says 1st Dan (Shodan) is when the real training begins.I have come to not appreciate this statement much. Why discount all the learning that takes place before it? I think that learning is learning, and later learning builds on early learning. I like to think of it as just a continuum.I do think that it is difficult to quantify what exactly a "black belt" is. Everyone has different talents and abilities, and it is up to them to figure out what it is, and how to grow into it. Not everyone will have great technique, but some without may be great at applying concepts and strategies, and so on.Sometimes, I think the styles that really have it all figured out are the ones that don't use rank at all. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
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