W-shaped block

[DWx]

Bit of a technical question here for people who do the Chang Hon forms (or even if you don't).

This is something we have been debating over in class for a few months now because my instructor and his master teach it one way but others in the UK teach it another.

Where do you look when doing the W-shaped block? (moves 13-18 in Toi-Gye or 39, 40 in Ge-Baek). Do you turn your head and look towards the leading arm? i.e. the way you stepped towards. Or do you look straight forward and just rely on peripheral vision as in this video.

The second version is what we do in class and all the videos I can find do it this way (and in Gen. Choi's book). However the England squad members we train with are being told to look towards the leading arm because this is now whats "correct".

Which way do people do it on here?

[joesteph]

This isn't my art, DWx, but I watched the video twice, then read the comments on the first seven pages. Any reference to the W as presented has been a positive one. (And other videos I found, as you said, do it this way as well.)

Interestingly, one of the comments, not specifying the W, said s/he thought it was good that different instructors taught the form differently.

If you've been reading General Choi's book, then that definitely sounds like the "orthodox" way, and there must be bunkai for it as it's practiced in that manner. Is there a UK group/organization that would have approved a change? Could it be that it's easier to grasp this form by making that adjustment?

[Truestar]

I tend to look towards the leading arm. But that's how I was taught.

I honestly don't see either way as being incorrect. Using the peripherals displays a 50/50 sight on both sides of your body, demonstrating the ability to see both targets at the same time, and let's face it, that's what the W-block is for.

[sensei8]

Where do you look when doing the W-shaped block? (moves 13-18 in Toi-Gye or 39, 40 in Ge-Baek). Do you turn your head and look towards the leading arm? i.e. the way you stepped towards. Or do you look straight forward and just rely on peripheral vision as in this video.

First of all, I'm not familiar with this form, but, at DWx's invitation via her's...."(or even if you don't)", I'd like to add my two cents to the discussion. I don't know the methodology behind the W-shaped block, but still...

Always, look before leaping!

Simply meaning, that one MUST turn ones head first before one blocks, i.e. this W-shaped block. Peripheral vision is one thing, but, nothing's more important than looking at 'it' straight on. Turning my head first towards 'it' eliminates all guessing.

Turn the head first and then everything else just follows (shoulders, hips, etc).

[joesteph]

Always, look before leaping!

Simply meaning, that one MUST turn ones head first before one blocks . . .

Turn the head first and then everything else just follows (shoulders, hips, etc).

This was emphasized back when I was a white belt, Bob. My teacher has pressed that, to do a form correctly, you have to turn the head first. Sometimes you have to add in a slight twist of the body to make sure of what you're doing/where you're going, such as for a 180 degree turn.

I've had lower belts crash into me while doing forms, simply because they either didn't look (which makes the form move faster--but I wouldn't say better), or they did a token glance that just didn't cut it. That's when our teacher calls out this important reminder.

[DWx]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Maybe I should just clarify what the block is for you guys who don't do the form/style. In that video the blocks are from 30 to 40secs. The idea of the W-shaped block is that you are stepping either into or away from an attack and are blocking with the forearms against attacks to head height. Both arms can be blocking simultaneously or you can be blocking one attack with one arm.

Simply meaning, that one MUST turn ones head first before one blocks, i.e. this W-shaped block. Peripheral vision is one thing, but, nothing's more important than looking at 'it' straight on. Turning my head first towards 'it' eliminates all guessing.

Well in this form you are already looking at the direction you are moving towards because of the previous movement. So my master argues that because you have already seen the attack coming you can block it and use only your peripheral vision to keep an eye on it. That way it makes sure that you aren't blind to whats happening on the other side of your body because of the positioning of the body and arms you can be vulnerable on that side. Also when looking to one side a lot of people often find that they over twist the torso in order to see. However sensei8, your reasoning is whats usually argued for the looking towards the block option.

On a side note, we are taught not to look with the head before moving, but to look with the eyes first. Then the head and body move together (this is a stylistic thing not just limited to my instructor). The idea is that by turning the head first you would be a signal that you are about to move whereas just moving your eyes to look is a lot less obvious to a would be attacker. There are other reasons too such as wanting to keep the spine in line unless its absolutely necessary not to to prevent any strain on the neck.

[tonydee]

I look 45 degrees forwards, which matches my recollection of the patterns in the Encyclopedia (though I haven't got them here to confirm).

Cheers, Tony

[sensei8]

sensei8 wrote:

Simply meaning, that one MUST turn ones head first before one blocks, i.e. this W-shaped block. Peripheral vision is one thing, but, nothing's more important than looking at 'it' straight on. Turning my head first towards 'it' eliminates all guessing.

Well in this form you are already looking at the direction you are moving towards because of the previous movement. So my master argues that because you have already seen the attack coming you can block it and use only your peripheral vision to keep an eye on it. That way it makes sure that you aren't blind to whats happening on the other side of your body because of the positioning of the body and arms you can be vulnerable on that side. Also when looking to one side a lot of people often find that they over twist the torso in order to see. However sensei8, your reasoning is whats usually argued for the looking towards the block option.

Differing methodologies are what make up the different styles. One does it this way, while another does it that way. Is your style correct/wrong? Is my style correct/wrong? Is someone else's style correct/wrong? Nope! Methodologies are why I'm this and you're that and whomever is this and that! Who's the most effective? We'll only know this when we've meet on the battlefield!

Edited August 24, 2009 by sensei8

[sensei8]

Maybe I should just clarify what the block is for you guys who don't do the form/style. In that video the blocks are from 30 to 40secs. The idea of the W-shaped block is that you are stepping either into or away from an attack and are blocking with the forearms against attacks to head height. Both arms can be blocking simultaneously or you can be blocking one attack with one arm.

Sounds to me like your W-shaped block is quite similar to Karate's Yama Uke (Mountain Block) as used in the Kata, for example, Jitte.

[bushido_man96]

I look toward the direction I am going when stepping into the block, then focus forward upon completion of the block. Then, I look toward the next block, and so on.

I found a Jitte Kata video here, Bob: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAiAm0W-zgw

Yes, its the same block. In my TKD school, we actually call them Mountain Blocks, as opposed to W-shaped Blocks.