Shotokai Kata

[white owl]

I agree sensei8. There was missing elements of the kata.

[joesteph]

Fluidity aside, can you comment on the execution of the punching?

The punches have a swooping look to them, and look like they wouldn't provide much power.

When I learned this as a white belt, the punches had to be fired straight off the starting point to the solar plexus--no "swooping" at all. We learned to throw a hip twist into it for additional power. This video's punches "bump" the opponent's midsection.

Isn't it a black belt performing the form--or am I seeing it wrong? Is there some bunkai (like a way of performing a groin strike) that justifies the way the punch is done? If that's what the practitioner's taught, and she's considered proficient enough to be featured on the site, then either that's the way of the art or, if not, then why is her instructor teaching/accepting what we see?

[Chuck]

Fluidity aside, can you comment on the execution of the punching?

The punches have a swooping look to them, and look like they wouldn't provide much power.

When I learned this as a white belt, the punches had to be fired straight off the starting point to the solar plexus--no "swooping" at all. We learned to throw a hip twist into it for additional power. This video's punches "bump" the opponent's midsection.

Isn't it a black belt performing the form--or am I seeing it wrong? Is there some bunkai (like a way of performing a groin strike) that justifies the way the punch is done? If that's what the practitioner's taught, and she's considered proficient enough to be featured on the site, then either that's the way of the art or, if not, then why is her instructor teaching/accepting what we see?

Shotokai is a 'soft' form vs. Shotokan's 'hard' form based from the same foundaton of Funakoshi teachings.

The Katas and kihon are basically the same. However, without studying from those who have mastered it; it is hard to understand a soft form when Shotokan is a pure (well mostly) hard form.

[ninjanurse]

Not what I was expecting to see at all...very soft...no hips. I'll admit I have never heard of this particular "style" and will have to do some research.

[Chuck]

From Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotokai

Historically, neither Shotokai nor Shotokan were in fact "styles" of karate. "Shotokai" was just the name of the association launched by some of Funakoshi's students, and "Shotokan" the name of its Dojo, "Shoto" being the pseudonym by which Funakoshi used to sign his poems. The name derives from "Shoto", the pen name of Funakoshi, literally translated as "pine leaves", and "Kai" meaning "group", therefore "Shoto's group".

At Funakoshi's death in 1957, his students split into several factions: on one side of a particular group there was an already known JKA (Japan Karate Association), known widely as practicing "Shotokan", and on another, the Shotokai Association. One of the stumbling blocks between the two groups was the question of whether competitions were to be introduced or not.

Although Shotokai was originally the name of an association, it defined its own style when Shigeru Egami defined the broad outlines of the new way of practising that he developed after having, in a number of tests, discovered the inefficiency of the karate method at that time.

After years of research, Egami found an efficient way of striking by executing the movement in a relaxed state of mind and body. This is the basis of Shotokai. It focuses on suppleness and relaxation, as opposed to tenseness that generates force. Elaborating this basic idea, he suggested new forms of techniques and a new way of practising.

Egami always kept the Shotokai group out of the sport Karate movement. Master Egami wrote: "First of all, we must practise Karate like a combat technique and then, with time and experience, we will be able to understand a certain state of soul and will be able to open ourselves to the horizons of 'jita-ittai' (the union of one with the other) which lay beyond fighting. This is the principle of coexistence which enables us to live together in prosperity." (Source, mainly: KDSE Europe)

Shotokai Karate differs much from Shotokan in that it rejects competition altogether, feeling that it compromises Karate itself. Kata are generally the same as other forms of karate, although Shotokai often emphasizes smooth flowing movements rather than the sharp snappy movements of other styles. Kumite (sparring) in some Shotokai schools is practiced with full strength attacks, and is tightly controlled in terms of who is attacking and defending and the attacks that can be performed in order to reduce the chance of injury.

IMO Shotokai is similar to Tai-chi.

[cathal]

Isn't it a black belt performing the form--or am I seeing it wrong? Is there some bunkai (like a way of performing a groin strike) that justifies the way the punch is done?

Yes, a Sandan it seems. I could maybe see the punching as a rising punch, something I'd target under the chin or adam's apple.

[bushido_man96]

Perhaps, but I didn't see that the punches in this kata rose that high.

[barefoot-kohai]

Some images :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBxL-_pEw1Y

Best regards

[cathal]

I could talk all day about these kata. I really hope there's some Shotokai practitioners on here.

- None of them spoke with confidence, nor did they project their voices. Is this typical of Shotokai that they do not want to shout or have loud voices?

- The posture seems off, leaning forward, on all of the demonstrators.

- Timing is different from what I've seen, in a few points but it feels as though they are rushed. A few techniques aren't fully completed before moving onto the next one.

- I don't see much hip movement other than simple rotation and rising/falling. How do they generate power and use tanden/ki otherwise?

- No kiais. They simply exhaled loudly. Is this a typical kiai in Shotokai?

- The horse stance was low and strong, during Bassai-Dai.

What do you guys think? What are your thoughts on power generation, expansion/contraction, conservation of energy, kiai and kime, hip movement, posture, etc? I'd like to hear what you think,

If there are any Shotokai practitioners on the forum I'd love to hear from you.

**Edit: fixed spelling

[joesteph]

For this one, the fighting scenes seem to be aggressive in a "hurl yourself at your opponent" way. I didn't see any "swooping" punches. The training (particularly after 4:26) would require a great deal of room for a class.

The class seems to be sliding forward with each punch, and I think not just the rear foot being pulled, but the front sliding forward as well. You can actually hear the slide. Their punches aren't to the solar plexus or the head; they seem to be about their own shoulder height. Perhaps with the stance it's a strike to the chest/sternum of the opponent.

Were the kicks "push kicks" using the ball of the foot, to be followed by a punch to where the opponent was shoved back, or just interpreted as hitting so hard that the opponent was rammed back, and then punched where he was driven?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBxL-_pEw1Y

Are higher belt forms more "controlled"? They appear to be. The two-man form was nicely done.

Thanks, barefoot-kohai.