What Is The Martial Arts communitys Perception Of MMA????

[JusticeZero]

...karate and TKD for instance, had elbow, knee and ground techniques. They are no longer applied in sparring, relegated only to kata and drills.

However...

MMA is more like boxing.. Theoretically, a superb amateur boxing dude in a dirty gym somewhere can get very good, escalate, etc and maybe even go pro.

I would note..

Boxing once had elbow, knee and ground techniques. They are no longer applied in sparring..

and..

Theoretically, a superb TKD, Karate, Gungfu, Taiji, Aikido, etc. stylist in a dirty garage somewhere can get very good, escalate, etc and maybe even go pro.

[bushido_man96]

One day, MMA people are going to be teaching the kids class, and will look up in surprise to hear that the world dismisses them as formulaic and impractical, just like the Karate guys down the street and the Kung Fu forms school next door. Don't go there, they'll hear, those MMA sports guys aren't realistic or practical like *insert the latest new thing here* is...

I think that this is less likely to happen to MMA, because it, as a whole, isn't worried about being tied into a "way of life," wearing certain uniforms to class, and following ettiquete and an established pattern of curriculum that started in the late 1800s and early 1900s. It is always moving and changing, and its focus is on what makes one successful. Therefore, I think it is more likely that MMA will be more prone to bringing in new ways of doing things, and different things to do. Just my thoughts here.

The reason traditionalists are so against MMA is because of the popularity of that moniker. Everyone wants to study at an "MMA school" and they search it out.

I don't see a problem with this, nor do I think it is a reason for traditionalists to be against MMA. In a capatilistic system, the customer has the right and the privilege to seek out what it is they want. If the customer sees MMA, and wants MMA, then they seek it out. If they don't want TMA, then they won't seek it out. However, the other side of this is the product or service that is offered, and what its quality is. If the customer doesn't feel that the MMA gym they have sought is of good quality, then they will turn elsewhere; perhaps a TMA gym.

Another integral part of martial arts is honor. We start karate with the mindset of being able to fight. After years of training we are taught honor, respect, and humility.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes of all time: "Battle does not favor the righteous, or the just; it favors the prepared." In the end, philosophical beliefes and morals don't enter into the meat & potatoes of it.

[mudansha]

Another integral part of martial arts is honor. We start karate with the mindset of being able to fight. After years of training we are taught honor, respect, and humility.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes of all time: "Battle does not favor the righteous, or the just; it favors the prepared." In the end, philosophical beliefes and morals don't enter into the meat & potatoes of it.

Battle infers war and war is fought by many. I was referring to individuals. In fighting to survive, heart has the most to do with it. It is not always the man who has prepared the most. Since you are into movie quotes, let me quote another movie for you: "Victory belongs to those who believe in it the most and believe in it the longest".

In countless scenarios where average men survived unthinkable circumstances, they found that the difference between surviving, and dieing has been life circumstances. They found that those with much to live for (Fathers/mothers, husbands/wives) et cetera, were able to survive when those with higher skills perished. Granted, this is in wilderness survival and things of the sort, but I think that fighting is the same.

A true traditionalist is not going to get into a fight unless his life is in jeopardy. In the end it will come down to which man has the strongest desire to live.

Case in point:

Who will fight Harder:

1) An MMA Cage fighter trying to mug a woman

2) A husband fighting off an MMA fighter who has tried to mug his wife.

In the above case, an MMA fighter can simply run away but a husband defending his wife cannot. In that case, the MMA fighter will either give up, or beat the man to death because you know the husband will never give up.

While skill and preparation are the best tools; it is not always the better man that walks away from a life and death fight.

[tallgeese]

I disagree on strongest desire.

It is decided by who is more willing to harm the other and who has the beter tools to do it.

[JusticeZero]

Lots of people talk glowingly about desire and will and such. However, desire and mindset do not trump the laws of physics and/or biology; the graveyards are full of people who wanted very badly to overcome the situation they found themselves in shortly before their arrival.

[mudansha]

Lots of people talk glowingly about desire and will and such. However, desire and mindset do not trump the laws of physics and/or biology; the graveyards are full of people who wanted very badly to overcome the situation they found themselves in shortly before their arrival.

I believe the mistake is to discount either part.

Skill and preparedness has a lot to do with it.

Heart and will has a lot to do with it.

To discount either part can have disastrous consequences.

[RW]

...karate and TKD for instance, had elbow, knee and ground techniques. They are no longer applied in sparring, relegated only to kata and drills.

However...

MMA is more like boxing.. Theoretically, a superb amateur boxing dude in a dirty gym somewhere can get very good, escalate, etc and maybe even go pro.

I would note..

Boxing once had elbow, knee and ground techniques. They are no longer applied in sparring..

and..

Theoretically, a superb TKD, Karate, Gungfu, Taiji, Aikido, etc. stylist in a dirty garage somewhere can get very good, escalate, etc and maybe even go pro.

Boxing since it was actually called boxing is only strikes with the fists...

And even as of today, karate/tkd teaches you elbow/knee techniques (empi uchi, etc) as stand alone techniques, drill and kata, but there is not elbow or knee strikes in say, shadow boxing.

[gzk]

III)

IV) MMA is the result of pitting MA's against each other.

UFC began as a brutal bloodsport-wannabe tournament. Boxers, sumo guys, karate, TKD, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, wrestling, representatives of all of these arts and even some less practiced such as savate took part.

Eventually what worked stayed and what didn't got weeded out (sumo guys, for example).

We must also remember that the cage and rules set up for MMA were created by the Gracies to showcase and accommodate their style over others.

Yeah... it's designed to favor grappling so much, it kind of upsets me...

Why do you believe that? I strongly disagree.

Refs who either do not understand grappling or are just nervous about fans growing bored will 'stand 'em up' in the middle of a guard pass or submission setup. This happens routinely. You will never see a fight stopped when both fighters are standing and dancing around each other refusing to engage, with the fight restarted in an under-over clinch.

Judges who do not understand grappling hand victories to "lay n pray" fighters, because they are either directed to do so or cannot tell the difference between a fighter posturing up in his opponent's guard and landing hard punches and the same fighter with his posture broken and being controlled by the bottom fighter. Merely being on top does not mean you are in a dominant position. This type of judging does not favour grapplers.

The techniques that are banned are designed to favour the sport being able to be sanctioned, not to favour grapplers. You could not put on an event in the US with soccer kicks, stomps and headbutts. The original Gracie rules permitted all these things and more. The Gracies ceased involvement with the UFC when the rules became more restrictive. Where did they go? Japan, with longer rounds, legal stomps and soccer kicks. The cage is used to prevent fighters being thrown out of the arena. In a matchup between a striker and a grappler, who do you think would be more susceptible to being thrown?

[bushido_man96]

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes of all time: "Battle does not favor the righteous, or the just; it favors the prepared." In the end, philosophical beliefes and morals don't enter into the meat & potatoes of it.

Battle infers war and war is fought by many. I was referring to individuals. In fighting to survive, heart has the most to do with it. It is not always the man who has prepared the most. Since you are into movie quotes, let me quote another movie for you: "Victory belongs to those who believe in it the most and believe in it the longest".

I don't recall it being a movie quote. I didn't hear it in a movie, anyhow. But, battle can refer to two individuals, or a large group. Its all combat. Hands, feet, knives, or guns, etc...its all battle, and preparation is a huge part of it. Otherwise, training wouldn't be important, and the various styles of fighting that we all love to discuss would not have come into vogue.

In countless scenarios where average men survived unthinkable circumstances, they found that the difference between surviving, and dieing has been life circumstances. They found that those with much to live for (Fathers/mothers, husbands/wives) et cetera, were able to survive when those with higher skills perished. Granted, this is in wilderness survival and things of the sort, but I think that fighting is the same.

If this really were the case, then it would not benefit any of us to study the fighting arts, because in the end, its all based on will. Nor would it be any use to spend all the money that we do no training the military, or law enforcement officers, because in the end, it would all come down to the will to live. I personally don't believe that to be the case. Physical and mental preparation are very important when it comes to survival.

A true traditionalist is not going to get into a fight unless his life is in jeopardy. In the end it will come down to which man has the strongest desire to live.

Case in point:

Who will fight Harder:

1) An MMA Cage fighter trying to mug a woman

2) A husband fighting off an MMA fighter who has tried to mug his wife.

In the above case, an MMA fighter can simply run away but a husband defending his wife cannot. In that case, the MMA fighter will either give up, or beat the man to death because you know the husband will never give up.

While skill and preparation are the best tools; it is not always the better man that walks away from a life and death fight.

This isn't really a cut and dried situation. What if the mugger is doing so because he is starving, and wants money to eat? Self-preservation is a huge motivator. Likewise, the person being attacked is going into self-perservation mode, as well. So you see, you can have two people on different ends of the spectrum, but both have lots of will to meet their ends.

Where a true traditionalist might not get into a fight unless his/her life depends on it, I don't think an MMA fighter would, either, outside of the ring.

[MMA_Jim]

Case in point:

Who will fight Harder:

1) An MMA Cage fighter trying to mug a woman

2) A husband fighting off an MMA fighter who has tried to mug his wife.

In the above case, an MMA fighter can simply run away but a husband defending his wife cannot. In that case, the MMA fighter will either give up, or beat the man to death because you know the husband will never give up.

While skill and preparation are the best tools; it is not always the better man that walks away from a life and death fight.

The first full contact tournaments showcased that just because one has the desire to win he or she isnt always going to. In the case you mentioned, the husband is going to fight harder because the MMA fighter is going to be able to play around with him like a child-doesnt matter how much fight is in your system- if you dont know how to defend a choke, punch, or a takedown, no amount of willpower will help you prevail.

In regards to the UFC and cagefighting favoring grappling, where does this statement come from? Since its start, cage fighting has slowing adapted to fit the needs of the strikers and not the grapplers!

Case in point- the very first UFC's- no time limit, no gloves, no rules.

Modern cage fighting favors strikers by:

Giving them 4oz gloves- this prevents people from breaking their hands, which happened alot during the early bareknuckle days. It also inhibits alot of sensitivity of the grapplers (its exceptionally difficult to land a rear naked with gloves than without).

Time limits and rounds: every new round starts on the feet, regardless of where the previous round ended.

Elbows to the spine:: a terrific weapon to use on someone when you take their back- Bustamante used to use this one very often. With this, you can beat someone into submission with elbows to their spine. Strikes like this are no longer allowed (and elbows to the spine have never stopped a takedown when they were legal).

Inactivity on the ground leads to restarts on the feet- wheres the logic in this? If someone holds long enough a ref will stop them and start them back on their feet? To use what is already so abused, there are no refs in real life Perhaps we should start inactive strikers on the ground when they refused to engage.

These are just a few examples, but I can go on and on...