What Is The Martial Arts communitys Perception Of MMA????

[tallgeese]

One of my pet peeves is trad schools claiming mma training because of something like you stated above. It's in the same vein as everyone "discovering" ground fighting that's existed in their trad system for years and "decoding" it or "unlocking" it in kata.

Seriously.

When I started importing ground skills into my base system, I was up front that it was from guys I was training with that were shootfighters. Yes, it was new to me too. Later, when I really got into BJJ, I was still up front about where I was getting things from. Either you have the confidence to do this or not. It irritates me when people don't admit it.

The same applies to any skill set. Heck, I've stolen the Spear from Blauer's DT program and use it as part of my overall sd scheme. I teach it as well in one form or another. I don't say it's been part of the system forever, I admit I discovered it and credit the source that we adapted it from.

As to mma schools being such because of a mix of trad elements, they're missing the boat. It's the integration of those skills into a format that covers a wide range of situations that makes a mma school what it is. Not a couple of different striking arts. The common ideal of an mma school is also based around popular sport rules, so they should display that as well. So, it's hard to have a mma school based around a stand up striking art and a knife art. That's just not what the current connotation is.

A decent mma school should be easy to spot. One that has striking programs based around movement and combination work. A ground program based around BJJ or shoot stuff. And an integrated program that does both, this includes training in the ground-n-pound aspect of the game. You'll also see wrestling skills taught and drilled, so expect to see doubles and singles and the whole nine yards.

Defiantly a far cry from two schools of Asian striking taught out of the same building. I would hope that many people wouldn't fall into that kind of thing, but I could be wrong.

As for trad schools being threatened by mma. They shouldn't be. There are still plenty of people who desire that particular training style. There's nothing wrong with that. It's to each his own. It's part of the beauty of taking up ma's in general- the wide array of choice to suit individual goals and tastes. Schools should be secure enough in their skill set and the role it fulfills to deal with mma in town and vice versa.

[ShoriKid]

I'm going o ave to come down on the side of things with Jim, tallgeese and Bushido_man. I'm a traditionalist, though I count my self as one in that not so popular sense. I train in the system of my instructors and look for other skills to add to it to address problems/hole I find in those systems. That is why I don't have a problem with MMA.

There are plenty of fighters with excellent ethics and attitudes. Honorable men who are stepping into the cage or ring to test themselves. Against the other man and against themselves. They train very hard. Putting in multiple hours a day, some times as much as 6 high intensity hours or more, to prepare their technique and their bodies. They learn mental toughness by training hard with other people who are doing the same. They learn respect from those people because they have to. Because if they don't someone will be seriously injured while training with them.

Are their arrogant punks in MMA gyms? Certainly. I'd say they are in no more concentration than that found in dojos. There is nothing special about a traditional dojo/dojang/kwan that instills more character than a hard working gym. I can talk about ethics, honor and good moral standards, and live they as an example in the dojo and it will stick with some, and not with others. I can show respect for my training partners, opponents and judges, bust my tail working out and do everything I can to learn and inprove in an MMA gym and have the same affect on those around me as preaching a moral and ethical code. One setting does not exclude good character, or create it more than the others. Individuals foster an atmosphere, and they chose what that atmosphere will be. Where they do it won't matter.

Some people don't like MMA because they can't appreciate the work and technique that goes into the fight. This is true of fans as well as other martial artists. I love to watch certain fighters to see their foot work and angling. The same sort of close, small angles I preach about when I'm teaching a bunch of guys after we finish our kata work and are moving into drills and sparring. Some people don't like MMA because it threatens their lively hood. It is the next big thing, popular and where money can be made. It is pulling people from traditional schools. However, part of that is because that training they are getting is not addressing questions or needs that they have in many cases.

I intend to treat any MMA gym that opens the same way I do other schools near by. If they train hard, with good technique and are decent people on the whole, I'm glad to know them. I'll want to keep an open dialog with them and exchange training methods and visit with them on occasion. If they are not, well, then I'll do what I do now with traditional schools. Tell those who as what I believe and why if asked.

[the beast]

I see mma as a sport and NOT!!! a fighting style so it really really bugs me when people mma is better then boxing which is crap.

This absolutely drives me nuts. People thinking that "MMA" is the ultimate fighting art. As I see it, it's a sport with rules,and not a practical self defense system for the street.

I do enjoy watching it but I see it more as a sport than an art.

[sensei8]

What Is The Martial Arts communitys Perception Of MMA????

It's just another thing! Nothing more special than any other aspect of the martial arts. Why? To borrow from Bruce Lee...

"There is only one type of body, 2 arms, 2 legs, etc that make up the human body. Therefore, there can only be one style of fighting. If the other guy had 4 arms and 2 legs, there might have to be a different one. Forget the belief that one style is better than the other, the point of someone that does not just believe in tradition, but actually wants to know how to fight is to take what you need from every martial art and incorporate it into your own. Make it effective and very powerful, but don't worry if you are taking moves from many different arts, that is a good thing."

MMA...the current rage of the page! Let's not make a mountain out of a mole-hill!

[tallgeese]

Just because it's main expression that is seen most often televised is in competition doesn't mean it's not developing into what we'd call an art.

We've been rounds about it's usefulness as a sd framework so I won't start that here except to say it's got a pretty good head start in that area when it comes to an unarmed aspect. Regardless of what rules it's structured around.

It has a defined skill set, a methodology to transmit it, and it's constantly evolving and growing as new members take it up. That sound alot like what most ma-ists do, even if it's not covered in traditional trappings.

[bushido_man96]

As a Martial Artsist, I feel that MMA has a lot to offer the Martial Arts community. If anything, the very existence of MMA has caused all Martial Artists to begin thinking a bit, so that in itself is a plus for the whole MA community.

Now, MMA is going to be like any other style of Martial Art; you'll have the good, the bad, and the ugly. You'll get some great technicians out of it; you'll get some that aren't so great, but are still good enough at the game to be able to succeed; and, you'll have those that aren't good technicians, nor are they good fighters, but they still train, anyways. You'll also get guys that may enjoy the training, but may never step onto the mat for an actual fight in a competition setting. I think that is fine, too. If I had an MMA gym to train at, I would do it, but I wouldn't be signing up for any fights anytime soon, because I would be in the heavyweight bracket at 5'7". But, anyone can benefit from the training.

Some opponents of the MMAs will claim that the practitioners won't be learning all of the technical aspects that the MAs have to offer, and they may also claim that none of the spritual aspects will be taught. However, in my eyes, I see it as a set-up similar to Wrestling. Lots of conditioning, and lots of pair work on technique. What's nice, though, is that you get stand-up and ground work, along with the transitions that fit it all together.

The other major arguement that you'll get is that MMAs just train people to fight and be thugs. I don't believe that this is the case. An instructor cannot be held responsible for the actions or decisions that a student makes. Those fall sqaurely on the shoulders of the student; that is what integrity and responsibility are all about.

In the end, I just chalk up MMA to being one more MA style to choose from when one opens up the yellow pages to find a school to train at.

[RW]

Wow... let me chime in:

I practice shotokan karate. I have never ever done MMA, nor have I done brazilian jiu jitsu, nor will I ever do. Where am I getting with this? I am unbiased (you all are as well, but just saying...)

I see some people consider that MMA is a sport (true), and that it was not designed for self defense (true).

However (I know this will get me mobbed! ) I truly believe that MMA is much better for self defense than most martial arts out there. Yes, this is coming for someone who has ONLY done a TMA and who will never do MMA.

Allow me to elaborate:

I) MMA is a sport.

MMA is a sport, just like boxing. A sport from which people make a living. You see boxers and MMA whose only goal in life is to train for the next fight. They don't have to worry about going to their job tomorrow, this is their job. They are not afraid of getting a black eye and showing like that anywhere. They're not concerned or busy with things normal people are.

Even a TMA sensei. If he is giving a class, he is not fighting or preparing for a grueling fight. He has to give classes. Do tests for the students. Guide the students. Go to tournaments and/or prepare students for that.etc.

It is not fair to compare someone who makes a living out of something to someone who does that even as a job but still has other things to do.

II) MMA fighters can practice their techniques.

Again, just like boxing. The boxer knows how to uppercut. He uppercuts daily. He also knows how to dodge a punch, how to knock out people and especially how to take a punch. Some boxers get brain damage from the beating they receive in a usual basis.

The MMA guy, he has landed a foot kick to someone else's face in the past. He has landed a punch, he has knocked out people. He has also taken to the mat someone willing to knee him in the face in order to prevent it. The MMA guy has given an armbar and has sumbitted people. Most important, the MMA guy has also been punched, kicked, arm bar-ed and submitted.

Just how many times have most TMA's given a full power kick, punch, etc to another trained human being for a consistent period of time? (months, years).

III) Tried and true techniques

Jabs. Uppercuts. Leg kicks to the face. Leg kicks to the leg. Armbars. etc. They have all been tried and we know they work. The stance, it is easy and practical.

How often do we see a knife hand strike to the face in action? A spear hand? What about a "whirlwind kick"?

=> This is awesome, beautiful, skilled, nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8M0s6endDU&feature=related => This may not be, but it is more effective and realistic. (look at 0:24)

[RW]

III) MMA techniques ARE TMA techniques

MMA takes what works from TMA. Boxing punches. Karate/Muay Thai Round kicks to the face/body/legs. Elbows. Knees. Jiu Jitsu ground work.

What it does not take is the stuff you don't want to use in a fight. Horse stance? Spear hand? Tornado kick? They're all awesome, and they all got a purpose. But maybe their purpose is not to be used in a fight.

IV) MMA is the result of pitting MA's against each other.

UFC began as a brutal bloodsport-wannabe tournament. Boxers, sumo guys, karate, TKD, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, wrestling, representatives of all of these arts and even some less practiced such as savate took part.

Eventually what worked stayed and what didn't got weeded out (sumo guys, for example).

The bar got raised and now they can't limit themselves to a single art. People do Muay Thai (mostly) and karate for striking, and BJJ (mostly) or Wrestling for the ground game... and MMA was born.

[RW]

Finally, our TMA's are not what they used to be in their beginning.

Why does karate have elbow, knee and ground techniques in kata, drills and even "hidden" here and there but they are barred from sparring or competition? (This applies to TKD as well). This is just an example.

This makes sense. Today's TMA's are adapted to a civilized world. If they were as brutal as in their beginning, most of us wouldn't be practicing them.

MMA was intended to be a brutal sport. If it was pitted against the original version of TMA's, it'd not hold a candle. But not to the evolved, civilized TMA's of today.

There is a reason I am here in a TMA board and not a MMA one... I love TMA's, but yes, MMA is in fact better for self defense.

[bushido_man96]

Boy, where to start with more replies...this is really a good topic for discussion.

There are plenty of fighters with excellent ethics and attitudes. Honorable men who are stepping into the cage or ring to test themselves.

Are their arrogant punks in MMA gyms? Certainly. I'd say they are in no more concentration than that found in dojos. There is nothing special about a traditional dojo/dojang/kwan that instills more character than a hard working gym. I can talk about ethics, honor and good moral standards, and live they as an example in the dojo and it will stick with some, and not with others. I can show respect for my training partners, opponents and judges, bust my tail working out and do everything I can to learn and inprove in an MMA gym and have the same affect on those around me as preaching a moral and ethical code. One setting does not exclude good character, or create it more than the others. Individuals foster an atmosphere, and they chose what that atmosphere will be. Where they do it won't matter.

I agree with ShoriKid on this matter. All of the stuff that I have learned as far as ethics goes has not been from my MA training, but from home, from my parents, from religious beliefs, etc. Not many people sign up for even TMAs thinking to themselves that they need some moral guidance. Nine times out of ten it is the draw of physical activity and self-defense/fighting.