What Is The Martial Arts communitys Perception Of MMA????

[Himokiri Karate]

I was reading a newspaper about mma fighting and trying to make it sanction in Vancouver Canada and there is a group of traditional martial artist that are trying to keep it out of town and are against it.

However with the same token there are some martial artist that enjoy it and feel that is very good common ground to test ones ability in the line of fire.

I personally am torn in to two sides. I have met many type of mma fans mostly ignorant and seem impatient and others are very nice respectful and open minded. Oh and check ignorant in the sherdog forum an mma community

I see mma as a sport and NOT!!! a fighting style so it really really bugs me when people mma is better then boxing which is crap. The thing I learned in boxing is that fighting is CHAOS and you need a fighting style to keep you in there without turning it in to a chaotic mess.

There are Great Artist in the mma known as Karo Parisyan ( judo master) Anderson Silva (striking god) and machida ( an undefeated karate ace)

For me these guys give me hope but the ones that half-gassed everything and just look like GARBAGE standing and on the ground are the ones that martial arts warns people when they say have patient and learn correctly and etc...

So share your thoughts on the mma I am sure this topic has been done but I am a new guy so forgive me if its redundant and feel free to post an archive if no one doesn't want to talk about

[JusticeZero]

It's an interesting MARTIAL ART STYLE that's developed; it has some definite things that they've shown, and it's popularity means that everyone pretty much needs to assume that a model foe will fight like them.

It's mostly a duelling style though rather than being a more pragmatic type of self defense, and they tend to have a lot of ego; mostly they manage to keep their ego because the people who want to train hard often end up going to them, creating a golden cycle that fulfils their expectations because the people who are going to be good keep coming to them because of their present positioning in the media.

[mudansha]

I was reading a newspaper about mma fighting and trying to make it sanction in Vancouver Canada and there is a group of traditional martial artist that are trying to keep it out of town and are against it.

However with the same token there are some martial artist that enjoy it and feel that is very good common ground to test ones ability in the line of fire.

I personally am torn in to two sides. I have met many type of mma fans mostly ignorant and seem impatient and others are very nice respectful and open minded. Oh and check ignorant in the sherdog forum an mma community

I see mma as a sport and NOT!!! a fighting style so it really really bugs me when people mma is better then boxing which is crap. The thing I learned in boxing is that fighting is CHAOS and you need a fighting style to keep you in there without turning it in to a chaotic mess.

There are Great Artist in the mma known as Karo Parisyan ( judo master) Anderson Silva (striking god) and machida ( an undefeated karate ace)

For me these guys give me hope but the ones that half-gassed everything and just look like GARBAGE standing and on the ground are the ones that martial arts warns people when they say have patient and learn correctly and etc...

So share your thoughts on the mma I am sure this topic has been done but I am a new guy so forgive me if its redundant and feel free to post an archive if no one doesn't want to talk about

I feel that "mixed martial arts" is a misnomer. It should read "diluted martial arts". MMA is nothing new. It is simply a watered down version of two martial arts styles. It mixes full contact karate with wrestling arts like Judo, Sumo, JuiJitsu et cetera. The problem is that it really tears the core out of traditional martial arts; its a shortcut.

For example; for one to become a black belt level competitor in traditional martial arts (TMA) one has to study basics, and kata for YEARS. The average time frame for a TMA is 4-6 years of training to obtain a black belt. Then to persue a black belt in traditional Judo, or Juijitsu, another 4-6 years. This of course could be done concurrently if one could dedicate enough time to it; still you are talking about 6 years of training to obtain a base rank of shodan in these arts. Another integral part of martial arts is honor. We start karate with the mindset of being able to fight. After years of training we are taught honor, respect, and humility. So much to the point that many times a black belt is less likely to get into a fight out of respect for the other person.

MMA comes along and now one can do it in half the time. Instead of learning kihon (basics) kata, and honor, that is stripped away and one is taught a mix of Juijitsu/Judo and karate techniques. WIthin 2 years one is an MMA star.

The reason traditionalists are so against MMA is because of the popularity of that moniker. Everyone wants to study at an "MMA school" and they search it out. In essence, practitioners of TMA have stripped the core of karate, stripped the core of Judo, and rebadged it as something new. It has become so popular that sometimes people over look TMA completely.

[MMA_Jim]

I personally am torn in to two sides. I have met many type of mma fans mostly ignorant and seem impatient and others are very nice respectful and open minded. Oh and check ignorant in the sherdog forum an mma community

So you judge the quality of the sport by the fans? There are lots of boneheads that watch boxing- I used to see them at the club every weekend night when a fight was one. You know those guys "I could have gone pro, but....." Just because theres a bunch of beered up ignoramous fans here in the US doesnt mean they speak for everyone. Watch an even on Japanese soil- those people are into the game- you could hear a pin drop while the two fighters are in the ring.

I see mma as a sport and NOT!!! a fighting style so it really really bugs me when people mma is better then boxing which is crap. The thing I learned in boxing is that fighting is CHAOS and you need a fighting style to keep you in there without turning it in to a chaotic mess.

Mixed Martial Arts simply implies what the ruleset is and suggests that a fight isnt limited to any one range of fighting or any one style. As to whether or not MMA is better than boxing, well thats a relative statement. What constitutes "better"? Is it entertainment? If so than it depends on the audience and what they want to see. Does better= better fighters? If thats the case then yes, MMA by its very definition is better than boxing. A boxer can only fight on his feet with a ref to keep someone from clinching him. A mixed martial artist trains to fight as if there were no ref involved. Bear in mind this doesnt mean that one is more or less technical than the other-just a better fighter.

There are Great Artist in the mma known as Karo Parisyan ( judo master) Anderson Silva (striking god) and machida ( an undefeated karate ace).

There are plenty of other great fighters in the game of MMA. Hayato Sakurai is well rounded with great judo, Matt Hughes is a phenominal wrestler , Hidehiko Yoshido is an Olympic Gold Medalist, Gabriel Gonzaga Marcio Pe de Pano, and Fabricio Werdum are all World Champion Jiu Jitsu fighters.

For me these guys give me hope but the ones that half-gassed everything and just look like GARBAGE standing and on the ground are the ones that martial arts warns people when they say have patient and learn correctly and etc..

One doesnt have to look pretty to be a good fighter. There are plenty of people who look less than impressive with their skills, but that applies to every sport you'll watch (including boxing, hence the reason for its decline). If you want to include any type of philosophical learning in your martial arts training, thats entirely up to you. Mixed Martial Arts is great for people who have an interest in fighting and none in budo or karma or anything else people swear by. What makes one a good fighter is fighting, and learning fighting techniques- not studying an ancient dogma. Its a physical skill just like anything else. You could apply that same dogma to any other sport, and in the end it doesnt really matter-reading books, practicing religion, or trying to lead a good life will in no way influence your skills as a fighter. It is best to keep the two aspect seperate from one another.

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[MMA_Jim]

I feel that "mixed martial arts" is a misnomer. It should read "diluted martial arts". MMA is nothing new. It is simply a watered down version of two martial arts styles. It mixes full contact karate with wrestling arts like Judo, Sumo, JuiJitsu et cetera. The problem is that it really tears the core out of traditional martial arts; its a shortcut. .

Far from it- have you ever trained with a high level mixed martial artist? Mixed Martial Arts will take a lifetime striving for perfection. Hardly watered down, it incorporates the BEST that other styles have to offer. University of Jiu Jitsu in San Diego is run by the two best Jiu Jitsu fighters the world has to offer- and its a MMA gym on top of a Jiu Jitsu school. Chute Boxe has the best Muay Thai fighters that Brazil has to offer, and they incorporate jiu jitsu and wrestling into their school and cirriculum. Such "watered down" fighters in UFC are the best fighters the world has to offer.

For example; for one to become a black belt level competitor in traditional martial arts (TMA) one has to study basics, and kata for YEARS. The average time frame for a TMA is 4-6 years of training to obtain a black belt. Then to persue a black belt in traditional Judo, or Juijitsu, another 4-6 years. This of course could be done concurrently if one could dedicate enough time to it; still you are talking about 6 years of training to obtain a base rank of shodan in these arts. Another integral part of martial arts is honor. We start karate with the mindset of being able to fight. After years of training we are taught honor, respect, and humility. So much to the point that many times a black belt is less likely to get into a fight out of respect for the other person. .

Honor, respect, humility- these have absolutely nothing to do with real fighting. It has to do with ones way of life. Fighting is about fighting- its violent, brutal, fast, and chaotic. Most TMA's cant stand the fact that someone can be good at fighting and be of a questionable character. Thats life. Mixed Martial Arts led many people to question what karate and TMA's were preaching for so many years. These types of fighters cut the fat and got right into what people wanted to learn-how to fight and how to fight effectively. As a result, many in the TMA community have a vendetta against MMA>

MMA comes along and now one can do it in half the time. Instead of learning kihon (basics) kata, and honor, that is stripped away and one is taught a mix of Juijitsu/Judo and karate techniques. WIthin 2 years one is an MMA star. .

Once again, things such as kata, honor, respect have nothing to do with real fighting. You can apply them to your lifestyle if you choose, but you can be the worst person in the world, devoid of any honor, respect, or humility, and be the best fighter in the world. The reverse is also true. No matter how respectfull or honorable one is, these traits alone will not make them a better fighter- practicing how to fight will.

[mudansha]

Far from it- have you ever trained with a high level mixed martial artist?

I don't like getting into "mine is bigger" debates. I am not knocking anyone else but I will say that I train with Abe Belardo. He has 45 years experience in Shotokan, muy tai, and kickboxing in general. He trains MMA fighters. He is also a professional referee. I would put his pedegree against almost any trainer, MMA or otherwise. I have battled many a "MMA fighter" in the 4 years I have been training.

Mixed Martial Arts will take a lifetime striving for perfection. Hardly watered down, it incorporates the BEST that other styles have to offer. University of Jiu Jitsu in San Diego is run by the two best Jiu Jitsu fighters the world has to offer- and its a MMA gym on top of a Jiu Jitsu school. Chute Boxe has the best Muay Thai fighters that Brazil has to offer, and they incorporate jiu jitsu and wrestling into their school and cirriculum. Such "watered down" fighters in UFC are the best fighters the world has to offer.

Does UFC matter? I am from the country; I can show you good old boys that don't have any formal training but because of their profession have strong cores and hands and can knock most people out with one punch. Some people are born with a gift; others have to strive for it. UFC fighters are talented beyond the average. For them, raw talent mixed with a couple years of training can make a champion. What about everyone else that is not so lucky to be blessed with the body? The average person cannot spend 2 years in an MMA gym and expect to jump into the octagon.

Honor, respect, humility- these have absolutely nothing to do with real fighting. It has to do with ones way of life. Fighting is about fighting- its violent, brutal, fast, and chaotic.

This is where you are wrong. Martial arts is all about honor, respect and humility. If TMA has taught me anything it is that no matter how good you are, there is ALWAYS someone better. You might win 9/10 fights, but sooner or later you will lose. In an MMA ring there are rules. On the street, there are not. On the street, I can blow out your knee cap, gouge your eyes, or collapse your esophagus; things that are not legal in MMA. Do you think that a TMA on the street is going to play by MMA rules? This is where humility and respect for others gets involved. I know that should I get into a fight, I might have to resort to those measures and that will forever change the life of the other person. I have learned that most of the time, whatever we fight about is not worth it in the end. I would rather let that guy say what he wants and avoid confrontation than have to live with knowing I hurt him.

Most TMA's cant stand the fact that someone can be good at fighting and be of a questionable character. Thats life. Mixed Martial Arts led many people to question what karate and TMA's were preaching for so many years.

No, that is not what is perturbing. Usually it is the person of questionable character that uses his fighting education to brutalize others. They are the ones beating on their girlfriends and starting fights at the bar because they got bumped. In TMA we do not train people of questionable character as a matter of honor.

These types of fighters cut the fat and got right into what people wanted to learn-how to fight and how to fight effectively. As a result, many in the TMA community have a vendetta against MMA

TMA is an art and a science. It has been developed over several hundreds of years. "trimming the fat" is cutting corners. It may make someone better in the short term but not in the long term. In the end, a fighter will be better if he does not cut corners. Your MMA fighter might win today, but lets see what happens after that karateka has his black belt in Shotokan and Sumo. Oh wait, that has happened. His name is Lyoto Machida. Lyoto didn't cut corners. He cross trained in shotokan and sumo since the age of 6, and now after 20 some years of training, none of your MMA fighters can touch him.

Once again, things such as kata, honor, respect have nothing to do with real fighting.

You are incorrect. Kata is very important to the fighting arts. Basics, including kata, train the sub-conscience mind to react without thought. Repetition of movement establishes muscle memory and reduces reaction time. Over a 2-3 year session, it would have little benefit. Over a 10-40 year period, it is fundamental.

You can apply them to your lifestyle if you choose, but you can be the worst person in the world, devoid of any honor, respect, or humility, and be the best fighter in the world.

The reverse is also true. No matter how respectfull or honorable one is, these traits alone will not make them a better fighter- practicing how to fight will.

Didn't you watch karate kid?

Honor and respect for others also includes heart. The will to persevere. Those with good moral character and a strong base have the drive and the desire to survive.

Its all about winning the battle or winning the war. That jerk who is a good fighter might go 5 years beating everybody up and feeling good about it. This will happen until one day, someone gets a lucky hit in on him, or they pull a gun, and the jerk will be dead. Then who is farther ahead? The man who avoided the fight, or the more skilled MMA fighter who because of a lack of honor and humility finally met his match?

[tallgeese]

So much to say on the topic, but most of it can be summed up by stating that I agree with MMA Jim. Nicely done.

There are about a million reason one would want to train in any sort of martial arts, everyone has different reasons and there's probably one for whatever reason you want to train in.

I think most trad guys like watching MMA. I think a bunch more have modified their training in light of what it's shown. I don't know many that won't pick up some modicum of ground skill if given the chance these days.

I think by and large the view is positive given the high level of skill seen by the competitors these days.

[joesteph]

I was reading a newspaper about mma fighting and trying to make it sanction in Vancouver Canada and there is a group of traditional martial artist that are trying to keep it out of town and are against it.

What reasons do they give? If it's that MMA is "dangerous," then boxing would have to be outlawed. If they say it's not "really" a martial art, or that it lacks values, they have every right to their opinion, but the consumer has a right to choose whether or not to study it. Do they admit they have a vested interest in keeping out popular competition?

l won't say that there aren't those who dislike MMA for non-economic reasons, but the loudest protestors may well be financially motivated.

[tallgeese]

There's also a thread running over in Combative Arts that deals with the current state of MMA today. It's last couple of pages deal with some of the topics we're kicking around here and might bear checking out.

[Himokiri Karate]

I was reading a newspaper about mma fighting and trying to make it sanction in Vancouver Canada and there is a group of traditional martial artist that are trying to keep it out of town and are against it.

What reasons do they give? If it's that MMA is "dangerous," then boxing would have to be outlawed. If they say it's not "really" a martial art, or that it lacks values, they have every right to their opinion, but the consumer has a right to choose whether or not to study it. Do they admit they have a vested interest in keeping out popular competition?

l won't say that there aren't those who dislike MMA for non-economic reasons, but the loudest protestors may well be financially motivated.

The main reason is that mma is the new thing and no one wants train tma half tma schools protest mma other half say 50% tkd 50% karate and they call there martial arts "MMA" because of it.

So there are tma schools threatend by the mma others are jumping in the bandwagon