Yudansha only

[cathal]

We are affiliated with an open organization. It is the United States Karate Alliance. It is not really practical to have a uniform grading standard because there are all kinds of martial arts affiliated with the organization. Instructors are free to assign whatever requirements and whatever belts they see fit.

Alright I can accept this as the differences between organizations, beliefs in black belts, etc. I can understand how this can become challenging, as there is always a danger of an under-qualified person if the alliance accepts dojos based on dues & fees as opposed to training standards.

The last Kumite match I was in, the center judge was a 15 year old girl.

I think this is the most important point thus far. I know kind of glib, but hear me out. You've got an allianace of organizations which seems to allow the range of dojos and their philosophies to join & get together for tournaments and training (I presumed the latter). From your posting I gather you do not belong in the youth category? If you were an adult I would expect an adult as your judge, rather than someone with much less overall life experience. Again, IMHO I feel that life experience does affect how one sees Karate, competition, et al let alone how one looks upon life in general.

This is precisely why they should have separate standards for judging. Just because one is good at karate does not make him a good judge, and just because someone is poor at karate, does not make him a bad judge. Until requirements for black belts are uniform, (they will never be), then there should be a separate qualification program for referees.

In the organizations I am familiar with there is an international standard for referees and judges and one absolutely cannot take on the role without first taking and passing the training.

So now to the part where I'd recommend a few things. Firstly that if your dojo can continue to respect & tolerate the differences I'd say go ahead and keep doing it but do not take it as seriously as your own dojo's training and competitions. Keep yourselves in the family of practitioners and see if you can gently nudge the alliance into a more standardized methodology for judges, referees, etc. Open forums are great for this as the competitions & gatherings I've seen allow for instructors and their senior students to discuss and debate standards openly. If the alliance does not permit open discourse then I'd recommend ending your affiliation.

Next I'd say that you may want to put feelers out for other organizations who allow for anyone to join up for competitions and training. The JKA, for example has an international standard for these things and they welcome dojos which aren't affiliated, to participate.

Food for thought. What do you guys think?

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[mudansha]

Next I'd say that you may want to put feelers out for other organizations who allow for anyone to join up for competitions and training. The JKA, for example has an international standard for these things and they welcome dojos which aren't affiliated, to participate.

In the late 70's my dojo was JKA affiliated. In 1988, they switched over to SKIF when my sensei was ranked shodan by Kanazawa sensei. He was SKIF for many years but then due to internal politics decided to leave SKIF. It had something to do with preferential ranking, and money. At that time sensei Belardo was ranked 4th dan in SKIF. Recently they became affiliated with USKA where he was promoted to 5th dan. He prefers this affiliation because they let him rank whomever he chooses. In SKIF he was only allowed to rank Shodan and when he did, the money was sent into SKIF. Here he can rank up to Sandan and he only pays a small fee. I guess with lax rules.... comes lax judges.

[bushido_man96]

I'd say that there are a lot of different philosophies on just exactly what a black belt is. Some like your dojo take it quite seriously, and that isn't bad. Others I have seen have faster paths to black belts because they feel real learning begins at the black belt level. One cannot judge another style purely on their own philosophy, but merely respect and tolerate it. IMHO.

I agree with cathal here. Different philosophies in training will cause there to be different time frames in testing and aquiring rank. I think that some are too fast, and I think that some are too slow. In the end, it depends on the type/quality of experience and training that one is receiving.

As for the judging problems, those seem to pop up at many tournaments, especially those that aren't really sanctioned by some kind of competitive body. I do agree that adults should judge adults, for sure. I am also of the idea that black belts should do the judging. Not many black belts would appreciate being judged by lower ranks, much as adults would not want to be judged by children.

[quinteros1963]

Those are the rules. One person may be a shodan after 2 years and others may be a 3rd kyu or less in 3 years. Is it fair? Of course not! you could join a McDojo and get your BB quick or tough it out and earn it and become a judge in due time. You'll feel better with the later.

[Adam_XKT]

Last year, when I was 19, I was asked to sit on a panel of judges. I was a shodan and it was my first time and I was pretty uncomfortable.

Let me tell you - just because they're sitting there doesn't mean they think they should. I was sitting with a group of guys who were all probably more than twice my age. I felt really out of place.

But, I can say that I judged to my best ability. I looked to see if the forms competitors looked like they might actually be able to use these techniques, deep stances, body unity, intent, and form difficulty.

I felt real awkward when a guy about my age (I'm guessing he was a year or two younger than me) asked me why I judged him lower than the others. I told him I thought his form was okay but his stances were just too high up for my liking.

That said, I would talk to either your instructor and/or other promoters about judging lower ranks. In all reality, you could judge anything, in my opinion. If you haven't learned one, a form is just a form, and you know what you want to look for. Just because you haven't learned it doesn't mean you theoretically couldn't judge it. But my guess is that competitors and other black belts wouldn't be too thrilled.

[Sibylla]

I was in the same situation a few years ago..imo you either rank up, or put up with it, or leave. I did a whole lot of instructing and ref work in that dojo, but whenever something was "official", a kiddy bb would be chosen. Rank trumps knowledge, effort and hours spent. That's just the way it is.

Now I'm at the bottom of the hierarchy in a new art an dojo, and if I'm ever asked to instruct etc below my rank, I'll say no thanks. Because imo in the big picture, it's just a way for lazy instructors to not do their job. It doesn't count positively for the practitioner, you just become the sucker who does the work. Sorry if that sounds negative but I've seen lots of adult kyu in that role.

[skullsplitter]

I'm not a martial artist. I'm just a dad following and watching his son's journey. From my point of view from the viewing stands, the lack of consistency and standards from tournament to tournament is a glaring problem. Our small circuit includes 4 tournaments. I've seen my son nail his kata or weapon, but then place well below others who appeared to have some issues. Then the next tourney I've seen my son not do well at all, but place above others who I thought did better. It all seems so random.

Our school also runs training classes for judging prior to the tournament season. I don't know how many other schools do this, but it seems to me it could help things overall.

[Dobbersky]

I only have one thing to add, Sosai Oyama.

He was saddened by the Karate Competitions etc and formed Kyokushin and from there we have Knockdown karate competitions etc.

I would concentrate on you own grade and get to Ichi Kyu. I've know Ichi Kyu's that have been that grade for nearly 15 years suppassed by many going up the grades to Yudansha. Although regarded highly in the club, they were still Mudansha.

I too only give out Junior Blackbelts to anyone under 16, but to gain Adult full Shodan they have to "spar" with the adults etc I expect the same levels in Kata etc to "earn" the right to wear the Black belt.

OSU

[JAKEHE3078]

I only have one thing to add, Sosai Oyama.

He was saddened by the Karate Competitions etc and formed Kyokushin and from there we have Knockdown karate competitions etc.

I would concentrate on you own grade and get to Ichi Kyu. I've know Ichi Kyu's that have been that grade for nearly 15 years suppassed by many going up the grades to Yudansha. Although regarded highly in the club, they were still Mudansha.

I too only give out Junior Blackbelts to anyone under 16, but to gain Adult full Shodan they have to "spar" with the adults etc I expect the same levels in Kata etc to "earn" the right to wear the Black belt.

OSU

Finally a post I agree with. Also why on earth do people attend competitions that do not have sanctioned judges? People complain about unfair judging, yiu have to ask yourself, is it unfair because these so called black belt really do not know what they are doing?